The Drop: Lizzo’s “Watch Out for the Big Grrrls” has Depth, Drama — and So Much Ass
The Drop is an ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. This time they chat about Lizzo’s new show (streaming only on Amazon) Watch Out for the Big Grrrls. In the reality series, she brings 10 girls from all around the country out to L.A with the hopes that a few of them will join her on tour as her backup dancers. They chat through feelings about fat representation on reality TV, coded language about bodies, the amount of joy and ass on the series, and of course their thoughts on the show’s main babe — Lizzo.
Shelli Nicole: Hiya! Okay, so we got a sneak peek at the show and I am hella interested in hearing what you thought about it!
Dani Janae: Let’s get into it! So I was thinking, this is an Amazon show but, did you see much promo for it over the past couple weeks? I feel like I only saw it in passing.
Shelli Nicole: I had NEVER heard of it until it came across my virtual desk from some folks here at Autostraddle. That was hella confusing to me too because I actually do watch quite a bit of content on Amazon and still didn’t see anything about this. If there are government agents in our phones they would def have known that this is the show to recommend to me you know?
Dani Janae: Lol exactly! You got a reality TV show with a major pop star! You should be screaming about it.
Shelli Nicole: Had you heard of it? I feel like you hadn’t, ‘cos I follow you on social and you repost plenty of hot fat content and I feel like you would have shared this.
Dani Janae: I saw it a lil bit ago because a friend liked a video Lizzo posted of it on Twitter, but I was mindlessly scrolling and didn’t go back up to investigate. I thought she was just promoting a new music video or something.
Shelli Nicole:How do you feel about Lizzo in general? Are you a fan?
Dani Janae: I wouldn’t call myself a big fan. I like a few songs like Juice and some other big hits but I rarely listen to her music. I love her personality and the fact that she is such a champion of other fat people! She also has to deal with so much hate and I think she does it gracefully. I followed her on tiktok before I deleted the app, what about you?
Shelli Nicole: I dig her you know, like, we have some commonalities — we’re both fat talented hotties from Detroit — and I like her music. I’ve followed her career for a while but I think I learned more about her outside of that while watching this show honestly. I think we are on the same page about not wanting to have our bodies be so political to the entire world, but still wanting your presence to mean something to those who do look like you and inspire them in some way.
The show is about finding new backup dancers to go on tour with her, but I wanna pause on that and ask what you think about the term Big Girl?
I think it’s a very Black term, one that came before plus-size (I think?) and def before Thick but I —don’t like it? I’d much rather just use the word Fat or even Thiccc, but Big Girls low-key feels not great to me. I think it’s ‘cos it’s wrapped up in the ways it was used towards me in my childhood from mostly women family members or ladies at church, and of course the odd male commenting on a tween girl’s body…
Dani Janae: I also think it’s a very Black term! I didn’t mind it, there are of course more accepted ways to refer to fat women but I think Big Girls is less clunky than Plus-Size and less offensive than Fat. I use both those terms for myself, I think as a way to reclaim them, especially fat. But I can see how it would make people uncomfortable.
Shelli Nicole: That reclamation of the word is exactly what I think Lizzo is doing and that’s also why I wanted to ask you about it, I use a lot of the terms interchangeably too. I don’t think I purposely set out to use Fat as a way to come to reject the negative connotation that comes with it, I think it sort of just happened as I came to terms with my body, who I was, and how I looked you know?
Shelli Nicole: I also think it’s a thing between fat folks too, the gatekeeping of fatness within the community, especially from fat white folks, is so wild. Like, there are fat folks who will size check your fat body and tell you if you’re not X size you can’t use the word like — get out of here. BUT less on what I talk about in therapy and more on this show — I think it’s good, like… better than I thought it was going to be and a bit deeper than I thought it was going to be.
Dani Janae: I agree. I think it’s a super fun show that gave us a lil drama, lots of dance and rigor, and a glimpse into Lizzo as a woman and an artist that I hadn’t seen before. Like obviously you get her fun videos online and her music but like who she is as a person was still a bit of a mystery to me. I think her personality came through in the challenges she chose and the way she talked to the women on the show.What did you think of the women on the show?
Shelli Nicole: I liked most of them, but there were some that I just was not feeling and I LIKED that. It’s that drama that you’re talking about you know? Because they very well could have set this show up in a sorta coddled way and made it very woe is me, with everyone crying about being fat the whole time. Oftentimes people who create shows where fatness is the subject are like “Okay they are all already fat, we can’t bring on people who are mean or rude too.” but it’s like YES YOU CAN! You can be mean and fat lol, both of those things can be true!
Dani Janae: Lol yes exactly! I think there is often a tendency to infantilize fat people and be like “awww you’re a big teddy bear” And it’s like nah I can be mean too.
Shelli Nicole: Did you have a favorite episode? I really dug that each one was an hour long! The show def had a BUDGET which was so beautiful that they didn’t skimp on any of the details — including how fucking good Lizzo looked in every single one.
Dani Janae: Hmmm I really liked the one where the sensual movement artist came in and worked with them on connecting to their bodies, I loved that episode.And yes that show had BUDGET!!
Shelli Nicole: THAT EPISODE WAS MY FAVORITE TOO!!
Dani Janae: That was such a good episode. I loved seeing fat women get naked and vulnerable and get to see their bodies in a whole new beautiful light. There was a challenge on tiktok a few months ago that was like “watch the opening credits for nocturnal animals. It’s so GROSS!” And it was just fat people naked and dancing. So much media for us is like that. Being the butt of the joke. Being the gross factor. It was just so good to see women tapped into their bodies in a loving way and see the beautiful photos that resulted.
Shelli Nicole: It was incredible, I found myself getting mad that the one where they were the most vulnerable was my favorite. They shared their traumas around things and I didn’t want this episode — where they happened to be doing that — to be the one that folks focused on the most. Those are usually the only times that folks wanna listen to fat folks but…it was still so fucking beautiful.
I wrote down something someone shared in that episode that stuck with me. One of the girls was talking about her younger self, saying she would think, “If I’m fat, why I gotta be Black too?” referring to her complexion. That got me ‘cos WOW THAT WAS ME IN MIDDLE SCHOOL.
Dani Janae: Yesss!! Charity really touched my heart, especially with her being one of the older girls who struggled, but still tried really hard and was a fantastic dancer! I really loved that Moesha shared about being adopted and how that affected her perception of herself because girl SAME.
Shelli Nicole: I’m not the biggest fan of reality TV these days, so something needs to be either super trashy or super niche to bring me in and this def was doing that just a few episodes in. There’s also just — so much joy in the series.
Dani Janae: The joy was definitely palpable. I felt it through me when I was finished watching it. It made me want to do all the things the Big Girls were doing!
Shelli Nicole: In the house the girls are being playful and silly, folks are supportive but still quite competitive. There is so much laughter, smiling, and jumping around. They were actually happy and excited to be there, in this mansion just living their best lives!
Dani Janae: I loved how they were so supportive of each other and really championed each other. I was like, you can’t get that many people together in one house and not have lots of heads butting but they somehow avoided lots of drama and negativity.
Shelli Nicole: Also — the BAWDY in this show.
Dani Janae: Girl the sheer level of BODY. I was sweating in my apartment when it was like 60 degrees.
Shelli Nicole: Like BODY BODY too, from jump. Tummies, thighs, bare arms, and of course ASS. We were talking a few days ago about the show, and I didn’t believe you when you said there was so much ass but I should have because my goodness it was EVERYWHERE and I am not complaining ‘cos everyone is hot.
Dani Janae: Everyone is so fine, and I loved that it wasn’t just a standard body type across the cast, you of course had your hourglass, but there were women with big tummies and arms like you said. I was like “Okay this is so refreshing to see.”
Shelli Nicole: Did you feel like it was lacking anything? I ask because in the show, Lizzo says she had to liberate herself before she could help other people, and at the core of this show that’s what she is trying to do. She is trying to give them a chance to fulfill a dream, to see themselves as full bad bitches, she’s paying her own liberation forward and damn — isn’t that the dream, the goal? What a thing to be able to say you’ve truly done.
Dani Janae: Not really? I walked away from it feeling very satisfied, at the end of the day it gave me competition, which could have easily been sacrificed to appease people but like Lizzo said from the first episode, it’s an audition and not everyone was gonna make it. It had heart, emotion, laughs, and sexiness. It felt very well rounded.
Shelli Nicole: I feel the same, it could have just been another run-of-the-mill reality show — which honestly I would have been fine with because why do marginalized folks ALWAYS have to be expected to go above and beyond — but it also had layers, and those layers just so happened to be stuff that I could earnestly connect with. I know we can’t spoil it, but did any of your favs make it to the end?
Dani Janae:Yes!! One of my ultimate faves made it and I was so excited. What about yours?
Shelli Nicole: YES and I screamed because she deserved it! Wait, I know what could have made this even better. What if two of the girls in the house like started, crushing on each other? Dani Why am I always trying to make wholesome things dykey and naughty?
Dani Janae: Listen i was hoping for a lil dykin too!! Also, I wanna say more but I don’t want to spoil one of the funniest moments in the show lol
Shelli Nicole: So that just means we have to end this convo here so you can just text me and it can be our secret!
Dani Janae: LMAO yes!
Shelli Nicole: Thanks for talking to me again about cute fat hot girl shit!
Dani Janae: Yes, always love talking to you!
The Drop: When Will Black Queer Artists Realize That Fat Black Girls Need Love Too?
The Drop is an ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. This time they chat about the constant erasure of fat (and dark-skinned) Black women in the music videos of Black Queer/Lesbian musicians. For years, the love interests or objects of desire in the music videos of cishet male Black musicians, have in large part been thin (or acceptably curvy), and fair-skinned Black or racially ambiguous women. Now that same imagery is becoming a constant in the music videos of Black Queer/Lesbian musicians. Dani and Shelli chat through and wonder — do these artists know the message they are sending or do they simply not care?
Shelli Nicole: Hi Hi!
Dani Janae: Heyyyy
Shelli Nicole: Omigosh, Why am I rewatching “The New Edition” movie? I forgot how good it was! Anywayyyyyy — let’s jump in!
Dani Janae: Lmao love it.
Shelli Nicole: So I wanted to talk about this because a few weeks ago Syd’s new video came out. I do love her and her silky smooth-ass voice but I just was hella invested in what the love interest in the video would look like. Then, of course, the video comes out, and yeah it’s queer and cute but lo and behold — another thin girl (who is also somewhat racially ambiguous) is the love lead. Like, I’m….so sick of it? Folks will call me salty and they are correct, BITCH I AM SALTY ABOUT IT.
Dani Janae: Yeah, I didn’t even know about the video until you brought it to my attention but I was not surprised by the love interest in it. Most of our pop and R&B performers are thin or have idealized body types, and their love interests are the same. It’s really disappointing. Like, y’all can’t even pretend for a fictional video to be attracted to someone who doesn’t look just like you?
Shelli Nicole: I’m saying! Like, I get music videos and films are great for fantasy, cool that’s why I love them. But shouldn’t it be addressed if everybodys’ fantasy is a thin, cis-gendered, racially ambiguous woman? Is that the fantasy? STILL? Is that the “Look Ma, I finally made it!” — even for Black queer/lesbian musicians? I hate that I’d be okay with settling for them pretending just so the same narrative stops getting pushed forward, but as you said — they can’t even do that.
It’s not even just the fair-skin folks that’s the biggest issue for me, it’s the blatant fat erasure. People think dykes are so ahead of everything and that we totally love all women no matter the shape or size but, that’s just not true. Our community is also pushing this whole narrative forward that thin equals pretty and it’s fucking trash. I mean, on a non-musical side note you literally see it everywhere — just look at the new all cis, lite-brite and ALL THIN lesbian reality show Tampa Baes.
Dani Janae: YES! Dykes definitely fashion ourselves to be so progressive and that we don’t have the same pitfalls as men, but everyone is still really looking for the skinny pretty light-skinned, or white girl. Like I have written about this before, but the media we consume reinforces what we should find attractive. So when all I see are thin women getting dates/receiving love and adoration, it speaks volumes and just reiterates my lived experience.
Shelli Nicole: For sure, dykes will praise your confidence and share your photos to their stories with a fire emoji — but to be actually attracted to you? see you as a romantic interest or sex symbol? TOO FAR. It’s also interesting because it’s not just Black dykes who are pushing this narrative, it’s Black cis gay men too. The same ones who say they love us will still only put their thin caucasian friends in their music videos as dancers or background cuties.
There are 5 music videos (Including Fast Car by Syd) by Black lesbian/queer artists that we can name off rip, and they all show a thin love interest. That fucking sucks because it’s already hard enough to name 5 Black lesbian/queer artists in general.
- Eugene – Arlo Parks
- Honey – Kehlani
- Can’t Explain It (feat. Charlie Wilson) – CHIKA
- 64′ – Kaash Paige
Dani Janae: Yes exactly! It’s so rare to find that representation and even in our own community, we get erased. There’s still a persistent idea that lesbians are white so seeing Black lesbians is hard enough. Fat Black lesbians are virtually invisible.
Shelli Nicole: How purposeful do you think the casting of these videos is? And how much of a hand do you think the artist plays in it?
Dani Janae: I think the casting is very purposeful, the artist probably has some say in who gets cast but not total autonomy. I’m not in the music industry so I can’t speak with total authority, but it seems like the only time you see a fat woman as a love interest is when the musical artist also just so happens to be fat. I think about how it’s become a running joke that Netflix casts the same light bright cookie-cutter actresses as Black representation in their movies, and the same goes for music videos.
Shelli Nicole: I wanna point out too it’s not just the masc presenting Black queer/lesbian artists that I take issue with, it’s the femme ones too. Cynthia Erivo has her music video out where the love interest is a masc presenting, athletic-built person who is also fair-skinned. We as Black queers/lesbians talk so much about the need to see our love on the screen to normalize it, but when the opportunity presents itself to do so, the same layouts are shown. It’s the Masc/Femme relationship, two thin-bodied cis people, and da da da. So it’s like, do we wanna normalize our relationships, or do we wanna normalize a certain type of our relationships? You know?
Dani Janae: It also just perpetuates the idea that you have to look a certain way to be worthy of love! I write about being fat and dating a lot and I can’t tell you how many people, including other gay people, just have the attitude of “lose weight fatty and then you’ll get a date” and I’m just like NO.
Shelli Nicole: Absolutely. When I write about being fat and having sex or dating, people are stunned. Them being so dumbfounded is because they believe (or have been taught) that fat girls just don’t deserve those things. Can you think of any queer Black Lesbian videos where you have seen fatness present? in a romantic, loving, or sexy way?
Dani Janae: I honestly can’t. I’m sure there are indie artists who do have that representation in their music but I’m struggling to pull up examples. That Younger Lovers video I sent has fat Black people in it, but the central couple we see being intimate is still thin/traditionally attractive.
Shelli Nicole: So again we’re resolved to being boxes to tick off.
Shelli Nicole: The only one I can think of is Jada Michael in Freak and in that space, she is the fat femme that is in control and she centers herself as the object of affection, the love interest is another thin person though. Oh, and I guess Can I by Kehlani, but even then it’s not like a love interest. It just feels like “Here is a fat girl so you can’t say there wasn’t one in it”.
Dani Janae: Yes totally! I think Kehlani is cool and I don’t want to disparage them, but it’s hard to not feel like people will throw in one plus-size person to avoid criticism.
Shelli Nicole: But I took it and didn’t really complain because I was just — grateful for the representation? which, ugh how sad. For me, it just extra hurts to see it come from Black lesbian/queer artists in their videos. Non-black artists will often have a Black girl love interest or a fat girl but it feels so performative. It’s wild that I’m even asking the Black artists to be performative if they have to just to see myself represented.
Dani Janae: Yes totally, it reminds me of how people will love us in private but when it’s time to go public they get reaaaal secretive or do some performative “look at how progressive I am with my fat girlfriend” bullshit.
Shelli Nicole: I’ve been in both of those situations and all I wanted to do was set myself on fire. That was a dramatic statement but it fits. Basically, fat queer Black girls exist and we deserve to be more than just the friend in the music videos or their hype girl when dykes need a confidence boost. You can be Black, fat & sexy — like literally all of these things can be true.
Dani Janae: Exactly. We are here, we exist, we are TALENTED and can and should be the love interests in your movies and music videos!
Shelli Nicole: Can’t wait to be attacked on social media when this comes out by people telling me to stop whining about fat Black girls needing love and just start working out instead.
Dani Janae: LMAO same though.
Shelli Nicole: Also – I’m not even asking for it always to be some sweet tenderqueer love interest. I am asking for fat Black girls to also be seen as sexual hot beings — so like…objectify me I guess?
Dani Janae: Shelli can have a little objectification as a treat.
Shelli Nicole: Awwww, that’s all I ever wanted.
The Drop: Willow Smith Talks Polyamory with Jada and Gammy at The Red Table
The Drop is an ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. Today they chat about Red Table Talk and the episode’s generational chat on marriage and monogamy. Willow Smith opens up about practicing polyamory while Gammy tries to understand. The table is joined by a few other guests — the poly solo & educator Gabrielle Smith and her partner, writer Gabrielle Alexa, and others — who reveal how their multiple-partner approach to relationships works.
Dani Janae: So, I guess a good place to start would be asking what’s your personal relationship to polyamory?
Shelli Nicole: I get asked this question a lot, and usually, I don’t want to talk about it because of the setting I am in or the person who is asking it. I always feel like I am going to be attacked or have to teach — so it feels nice to not feel that right now. I am familiar with polyamory and there are a few homies I know who practice it successfully and I love that! I, however, am not cut out for it and it’s not for lack of trying. When I am dating, I am ethically non-monogamous and when I am in a relationship/partnered I am monogamous.
Dani Janae: Oooo that’s interesting. People are usually very one or the other but I rarely see a blend.
I identify as a hoe, so for years, I was just fucking without any thought as to what I agreed with as far as dating styles. In my first serious relationship we “practiced” polyamory, meaning she was allowed to talk about all the people she wanted to sleep with but when I did it she freaked out. So since I’ve been out of that relationship I’ve been solo poly but single for all of that time.
Shelli Nicole: I love that you are solo poly because it’s honestly a term I first heard while we watched this episode. I think it’s something I’ve already seen in practice with homies but never knew there was a name for it. It might be something worth exploring for me.
I also wanna get your take on something before we get further into chatting about the show. Do you see Dating & Relationships as separate entities? I do, I think they are uniquely different but have often gotten so much pushback on that stance, especially in the queer community.
Dani Janae: Oh yes totally. I see dating as a fun way to get to know people and maybe have sex and just be generally flirty. I’ve dated a ton, but I’ve only been in a relationship with two different people years apart. Relationships for me are what come when we decide dating is no longer the level of intimacy we see each other at. Like, I dated someone for a couple of years on and off but we were never “in a relationship” because we never reached that level.
Shelli Nicole: Dani, I know I say it all the time but I adore you so much. Because wow what a beautiful and relatable ass answer because a bitch feels seen and heard lol. Okay, now let’s take a momentary break in my adoration for you and chat about this episode of Red Table Talk.
Dani Janae: Lol yes, yes let’s get into it.
Shelli Nicole: So, it feels like RTT is on this wave of queerness. They recently had Niecy Nash and Jessica Betts on to chat about their relationship, queer identities, and even queerness in relation to the Black church. Now in this episode, we have Willow (who is queer) chatting about her decision to be polyamorous, with her mum and Gammy.
The first thing I thought when I saw this episode was coming out was “Damn, Willow is about to put herself through some emotional labor and my goodness do I hope it’s worth it.”
Dani Janae: Yeah, I can totally see that, it makes me wonder what the trajectory is. And yes I totally agree with that. I also thought Jada would have more to say especially with the way people have talked about her and Will’s relationship for years. It seemed like she and Willow were kinda vibing on most points though.
Shelli Nicole: Yeah, her and her mum were good. She seems like she’s accepted so much of Willow and has gotten over that thing of trying to understand each and every part of who she is. Now Gammy, she still may need a bit of time. At the start, she was so defensive about everything that came up!
Dani Janae: Yesss her “I’m just confused!” bit was a lot. Like I can get not understanding a lifestyle that is new to you, but she just seemed so closed off for the first half.
Shelli Nicole: It seemed was that she thought everyone was trying to say that monogamy is trash and that everyone should practice polyamory, instead of listening that it should simply be able to be an option. I think a lot of Black folks from that generation are under the impression that we want to get rid of what they know.
I felt Willow so much when she put her hands on her head and smiled and Gammy said “Don’t get frustrated” because I was in KNOTS you hear me!
Dani Janae: Lmao yes! Like I think the guests were making it clear that polyamory isn’t for everyone and it’s a lot of work that is more than just “I sleep with whoever I want.”
I agree with you though, especially older black folks who fought so hard for their sense of normal, that anything outside of it feels like an attack. I think of the history of black people’s marriages not being recognized as real and having to fight to be seen as humans capable of love and not just stereotypes and tropes of aggressiveness. Not saying Gammy is that old, but I think the history carries when people had to really fight for our rights back then.
Shelli Nicole: It just kept upsetting me that she couldn’t get past the sexual aspect of polyamory. It’s unfair and the guests did a great job at breaking it down as much as they could. They are better than me because the way I hate teaching things to my family sometimes, baby…
I loved the multitude of Black and POC folks they bought on to discuss it too. So many of the faces of polyamory are white, so it’s beautiful to show that it’s very much a thing in the Black and other POC communities.
Dani Janae: Also, so much of polyamory representation is straight so it was nice to see queer representation as well. And also people at different stages in their process!
Shelli Nicole: Did you think they were gonna talk so much about religion being a big part of marriage?
Dani Janae: Not at all, I mean religion is a part of marriage history but it came up a lot.
Shelli Nicole: The whole going to counseling with my pastor and making sure God is at the core was something I was shocked to see Willow agree with — not that religious folks can’t be poly or queer but it was just surprising how quickly they all agreed on that.
Dani Janae: Yeah totally I think I assume all queer people have a complex relationship with God but that’s not the case.
Shelli Nicole: What’s your take on the other polyamorous folks not really revealing their choice to be so with their families? Do you think we, as the children (despite age), owe it to tell our parents everything about our romantic lives? Partners, dating & relationship choices, everything?
To some extent, Willow does, because that’s what bought us to this episode. I’m not sure she was doing it to grow her relationship with her mum and Gammy through showing more of who she is and therefore foraging a deeper connection — or as a means to help them grow as people by revealing (and subsequently teaching them) about her decision to be poly, which feels like a burden.
Dani Janae: In truth for me I think coming out is an exhausting process, and having to “come out” as both a lesbian and polyamorous seems like a lot. Like I get some people just have that relationship with their family but certainly no one owes their fam that information. Unless you like plan to bring multiple partners to Thanksgiving dinner.
Shelli Nicole: I agree, telling them all about my relationships, partners and more low-key feels like it’s getting into friendship territory and I am not interested in being friends with my parents.
Lastly, I’m glad they talked a lot about communication in relationships — because there is way more communication in polyamorous dating/relationships than there is in monogamous ones.
Dani Janae: YES absolutely. It’s constant processing.
I feel like SOME straight monogamous relationships are built on so much silence and denial that leads to shit like cheating and divorce and unhappiness all around. Not saying everyone would be happier as polyamorous but I think there are some polyamorous folks in monogamous marriages suppressing their needs.
Shelli Nicole: Gammy came around at the end and pretty much understood that it’s a “mind your business and I’ll mind mine” kinda vibe.
Dani Janae: For sure.
Shelli Nicole: And I’m glad she did because for a minute I was ready to flip over the red table.
Dani Janae: LMAO
Shelli Nicole: As always my dear I love chatting with you and I am also wishing you the perfect Taurus season. Maybe your wives will finally make an appearance and win you over under the Pink super moon.
Dani Janae: Same to you!! And yes I certainly hope so 😈
The Drop: Lil Nas X’s Dykey Aunts Are Proud of MONTERO (Call Me By Your Name)
The Drop is an ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. Today they chat about Lil Nas X queer music video MONTERO (Call me By Your Name)
Lil Nas X‘s queer latest video for MONTERO (Call Me By Your Name) has got everybody chatting — Christians, Satanists, queer folks, and even corporations. His debut album, which he has confirmed will also be called MONTERO comes out this summer, and when talking about the video behind the first single he said “It’s brought a new confidence out of me. To be able to say, ‘You know what? I want to do this.’ And I don’t give a fuck who’s upset about it.”
Most of the chatter is around the (stunningly beautiful) visuals of the video and the message behind it all. In it, he strums a pink glitter guitar in a fantasy field garden, gets judged by versions of himself clad in wigs, makeup, and nails, and yes — pole dances down to hell and gives the devil a killer lap dance.
Let’s get into it.
Shelli Nicole: So I know Lil Nas X from his very obvious big hit “Old Town Road.” I loved the song then and low-key still do. All the remixes were dope and I just thought, cool, here is another good new artist, with another good song — can’t wait to hear more. I love that he disrupted the Country scene then and was ruffling all the racist white feathers. Is that when you became aquatinted with him as an artist?
Dani Janae: Yes absolutely, “Old Town Road” came out and I was like who is this kid? Because that song did not leave my head for weeks. I was singing and warbling in my apartment all day. It’s still a very good song
Shelli Nicole: Literal weeks! We should have known he was always going to be a bit of a disrupter though. That song took over all the charts, including the country ones which they quietly and quickly removed him from after deeming it basically “not country enough.” He’s been making people mad and I love that.
Dani Janae: Totally, there’s something so powerful about a young queer Black man storming into the scene that way, especially the staunchly white country scene.
Shelli Nicole: Before we get into the video for MONTERO (Call Me By Your Name) — do you have a history with the church or Christianity?
Dani Janae: Damn that’s a good question. I do have a history with both. I think very similarly to gay people before me I believed in a very white male capital G God that did not believe in me. I grew up believing every bad thought meant I would go to hell. So I just lived in fear for so many years of my childhood. Coming out meant I would go to hell for sure so that’s when I kinda decided my own happiness over serving God
What about you?
Shelli Nicole: I grew up in the church — my dad is actually a pastor.
Both of my parents have a pretty amazing life story, but one short one — after getting clean from drugs and alcohol they refamiliarized themselves with the church and the Lord they knew growing up. My parents have been clean since I was like three, I think, and them becoming so meant that my siblings and I were now part of the church.
So I grew up hearing all the shit the church spews and often got silenced by church folks for asking too many questions. Def heard gay people were going to hell before I knew what “gay” or “hell” even truly was. My parents never spread that kind of hate to me directly, but I know parts of them still believed that and maybe do to this day. This video though — it def bought out some stuff in folks, lol.
Dani Janae: People are ANGRY, it’s honestly not shocking but it’s still heartbreaking to see the backlash. I feel like he handles it so well though.
Shelli Nicole: It’s not shocking in the slightest, everything came up from from every community that you would imagine. “What about the kids watching,” “Black Men & homosexuality = ew,” “strippers are horrible people,” and so on — it’s tired.
Dani Janae: Yes, the “think about the children!” hand wringing is so TIRED. No one thinks about the queer and trans children who are suffering under oppressive language and legislation perpetuated by Christian ideals.
Shelli Nicole: EGG ZAK LEE. When you were growing up, can you think of any music videos that just influenced you and your future so much — in the way that these folks are saying MONTERO will? Or is that not something you can recall? 
Dani Janae: It’s funny, the things I always cite as “making me gay” were innocuous things like music videos that were clearly geared toward a hetero audience. Like I was obsessed with video vixens, just watching beautiful Black women dance around influenced me even though I could tell I was not the intended audience. But there was no gay art that condemned me to a life of homosexuality the way folks think Montero will. What about you?
Shelli Nicole: If anything, things like music videos may have slightly confirmed a feeling I already had or gave me a name for it. Mine was the video for Crazy by Aerosmith, seeing how Liv Tyler looked at Alicia Silverstone in this one scene made me go “hmm that’s how I look at girls. I’m not the only one? Cool.”
Going back to how he’s handling it, seems like he’s holding his own. His letter to his 14-year-old self? I fucking cried.
Dani Janae: It has to be so emotional for him. And yeah when I saw that tweet it really resonated with me. Through therapy and stuff, I think a lot about the life I lead as an homage to the frightened little girl I was. The girl that endured a lot of pain but still kept on living. I think many of us queer people live our lives so loud for our younger selves that were often bullied and beaten into submission
Shelli Nicole: For sure, just because I fought back on so many of those Christian ideals when I was younger, doesn’t mean that some of them didn’t stick. Those were the ones that took the most work to rid myself of through things like therapy.
Videos like this make me mad happy for young Black queers. It’s someone on their level showing their rejection of the oftentimes traumatizing cishet Christian ideals many of them are currently being taught. I live for anything that will shorten (or make obsolete) the pain of younger Black queers.
Dani Janae: Yes exactly, if they get to live bolder happier lives because of this then I’m all about it
Shelli Nicole: Let’s get into some lighter territory before we wrap up — favorite part of the video and yes, you can have more than one lol.
Dani Janae: Definitely the part where alien Lil Nas X starts to go down on the other Lil Nas X. I was like “Okay I’ve had that dream before.” But also THE POLE TO HELL OMG
Shelli Nicole: LIKE WHO THINKS OF A POLE DANCE DOWN TO HELLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
Dani Janae: LOL I was like this dude’s mind!
Shelli Nicole: I was a huge fan of all the aunties doing the judgment — when I think of who would judge me about my sapphic sinning, it is def finger-wagging aunts with hair stacked on high.
Shelli Nicole: The visuals are stunning — like, the fact that he used a scene from Spongebob to explain what he saw for that judgment scene? Give him all the monies, please.
Dani Janae: Lol that little fact had me dying
Shelli Nicole: I am fucking sad I can’t put my booty on someone’s daughter to this song though.
Dani Janae: It’s so creative and colorful. I feel like we don’t see music videos with this level of creativity much anymore, and YES like I can just picture me dancing on some hottie to this song in a sweaty club. I can’t wait to see the remixes that come out.
Shelli Nicole: OMG remixes, I didn’t think of the remixes!
I just hope that he is clinging to his chosen family — and the given family that accepts him — and keeps coming out with this kind of creative content for us to revel in. If he ever does see this he needs to know that this dykey aunty is proud of him and this dope journey he is on.
Dani Janae: Right? Looking on with tears in our eyes like “Yes baby! Work that pole!”
The Drop: “The United States vs. Billie Holiday” Is Big on Trauma, Slight on Queerness
The Drop is an ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. Today they chat about the new film, The United States vs. Billie Holiday — now streaming on Hulu.
The opportunity to get deeper into the lives of our Black queer legends is usually few and far between. In 2020, Netflix released Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom starring Viola Davis as queer blues legend Ma Rainey. There were some moments in the film that highlighted her bisexuality but for the most part, its focus was on Chadwick Boseman’s character, Levee.
The United States Vs. Billie Holiday starring Andra Day as the jazz singer was meant to be a biopic that showed her life as well as the story surrounding her song “Strange Fruit.” The song became part of the soundtrack to the forthcoming Civil Rights Movement and made Holiday public enemy number one in the eyes of the FBI up until she took her last breath. Although its presence in the movie is limited, Billie Holiday was also a bisexual woman (the most notable relationship she had with a woman was with actress Tallulah Bankhead) and that was a large draw for queer folks who watched the trailer. Dani and Shelli chat through the film, its tragic and tender moments, and the queer erasure that is felt throughout.
Shelli Nicole: So I was thinking this time we would actually start a little backwards and I wanted to ask first, after watching the film — how did you feel about it overall?
Dani Janae: Oooo nice. So I think overall there were some moving moments, but the execution kind of left something to be desired. They really set it up as Billie Holiday vehemently defending her singing this song but I really felt it was an addiction narrative. So I was surprised by that. I always judge a film by whether or not I’d watch again — and for me? Once was enough.
Shelli Nicole: I will totally agree with you on that. I knew that her addiction would be part of the film but I had no clue it was going to encapsulate the movie in its entirety. I assumed from the trailer that we would have more of her story with the fight on the song, and although, yes, her addiction was part of that I just know there was so much more.
Despite Andra Day completely knocking it out of the fucking park with her portrayal of Billie Holiday, I don’t have much interest in watching it again. It feels like I’m watching trauma porn with one hell of a soundtrack.
Dani Janae: Oooo yes absolutely. I fully understand they have to paint a picture of the times, and deep racial trauma and pain were a part of those times, but I found myself wondering why we need another gut-wrenching Black story on film?
Shelli Nicole: It was… so much? I know that we should have been prepared, knowing that Lee Daniels was part of the project and he has a history of highlighting tragedy and pain in Black women but — I was still going in with optimism that maybe this time there would be a change?
I couldn’t bear so much of it. Holiday’s life wasn’t full of flowers and sweetness, I’m aware of that — but I feel like because of the trailer I got the rug pulled from under me when I got to see the film.
Dani Janae: Absolutely. As a filmmaker, you have the responsibility to paint a full picture but this was A LOT. The only moments of levity were her singing on stage but that was often tainted by the presence of the feds in the crowd or the brutal treatment by the men around her.
Shelli Nicole: I felt like there were quite literally just a handful of “happy” or “light” moments in the movie — which is so unfair. It’s two hours long and that just doesn’t add up for me.
Dani Janae: It really makes me question the decision to make this film, like did you want to tell her story or just put out two hours of straight suffering? Lee Daniels’ history makes me think the latter. I don’t mean to rag on the guy but I feel like taking on this project is a huge responsibility. While you can’t ignore her struggles you also can’t just breeze past the triumphs.
Andra Day was fucking perfect though, I was mesmerized.
Shelli Nicole: Andra was so entirely STUNNING. She said that she put herself through it to embody Billie and while I am always on the fence about folks going so deep into their roles and taking on method acting, the end result of her doing it was perfection.
Now onto what really upset me, the erasure of queerness.
We were whole ass promised in the trailer a kiss between her and Tallulah Bankhead (played by Natasha Lyonne) and it was nowhere to be found in the movie. Not only that but the scenes where they were together seemed to be thrown in? Maybe if they didn’t leave the queer ones on the cutting room floor they would have made sense but without them, it looked like they just wanted to utilize Natasha’s stardom and audience and bring them to the movie. They just seemed like filler.
Dani Janae: It felt a little like baiting. Like, we have seen just how starved queer audiences are for representation. And that when we do get some we show out. This felt like “let’s promise a kiss to rope in the gays” and then they just dropped it. It was hinted at that they were lovers but the scenes between them were so… stale. It looked like they were just acquaintances.
Shelli Nicole: I’m genuinely so sick of hints though. Especially when there is enough information out in the world about her queerness and their relationship to truly create an actual storyline between the two of them. That paired with the fact that those stories would cohesively fit into this story that he wanted to tell feels so wasteful.
Dani Janae: Totally. The relationship with her husbands and agent Fletcher were central to the plot, they could have absolutely fit in a proper scene with her and Tallulah.
Shelli Nicole: It’s just such a difficult thing to dissect too because so much of her life was filled with pain, but just like they got really creative with the fictional people and relationships they created – why not get that way with bringing in some beauty and sweetness as well?
Dani Janae: Couldn’t agree with you more.
Shelli Nicole: Did any scenes stand out to you that you just think really made the movie?
Dani Janae: I think the most memorable scene was her stumbling into a field and seeing the lynching and the scenes that followed. That shit almost pushed me to tears. But for me, there wasn’t really a scene that made the movie.
Shelli Nicole: That. Exactly that. For me it was the scene right before she stumbled onto the lynching, when Fletcher took a hit and went on that heavy and quick journey of her childhood. I hate that though, Dani — I wish there was something else that popped up into my mind when even asking that question.
I also want to make it clear that my issue with the film lays mostly in the story that it was telling and how it was handled but not at all in the performances because they were all killer. They showed up on set and did their job times a million.
Dani Janae: Yes, they really did the damn thing acting-wise in this movie. I also hate that, I wanted there to be something. I only finished the movie a couple of hours ago and even with that nothing is standing out in my head.
Shelli Nicole: I’m still gonna be actively optimistic that this won’t continue to keep happening in films when it comes to Blackness and queerness. This baiting and erasure shit is getting old really fast and I’d like to have a film end where I’m just maybe talking shit about the soundtrack and not the other stuff.
But of course, I always dig talking to you though — even when it’s about a film I was hype for but was disappointed by. I’m gonna go drown my sorrows in some light skinned Oreos.
Dani Janae: Lol seriously was so excited for this film and to hear your thoughts. I’m always glad to talk with you about anything.
Support Independent Queer Media
We’re raising funds to make it through the end of July. 99% of the people who read this site don’t support. Will you be one of the ones who do? Joining A+ is one of the best ways to support Autostraddle — plus you get access to bonus content while keeping the site 99% free for everyone. Will you join today?
The Drop: Jenna Wortham and Kimberly Drew’s “Black Futures” Is a Triumphant Celebration of Black Voices and Black Innovation
The Drop is a new ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. Today they chat about Jenna Wortham and Kimberly Drew’s Black Futures.
One of the greatest things to witness as a creative is the conversations between writers and artists at the top of their game. I’m thinking primarily here of the Soul interview between Nikki Giovanni and James Baldwin. Of course, there have been many other great conversations between Black writers and creatives, but that one has a certain honesty and intensity that has stuck with me. In Black Futures, I get a taste of what watching that conversation was like. Black Futures is a collection of poems, essays, interviews, playlists, and art edited by Jenna Wortham and Kimberly Drew. It encompasses some of the many talented artists and creatives that have become prominent on the scene in the last ten or more years.
The title suggests that black people are a part of the world’s future; in fact, an integral part of it. Black people are the future, creating some of the most beautiful and challenging art we have seen, forging a way out of the past while being entirely cognizant of it. As the editors state in the introduction, time is not linear, we are always in conversation with the past, present, and future. Black Futures as a collection is keenly aware of this, making it a collection you can talk about with your partner, your friends, or your grandmother. Black Futures is a stunning triumph for everyone involved in it, and should be on the coffee table of many Black homes.
Dani Janai: Hello dear.
Shelli Nicole: Hi Hi!! I am so excited to talk about this book with you!
Dani Janae: Same! I’m very curious to hear your thoughts.
Shelli Nicole: We always seem to ask each other if we had any previous connection to the piece of work we discuss so, were you familiar with the editors Jenna Wortham or Kimberly Drew before reading Black Futures?
Dani Janae: I wasn’t very familiar with either of them. I knew of Jenna Wortham but had never heard of Kimberly Drew. When the buzz started around this project I looked more into Wortham. What about you?
Shelli Nicole: I was already familiar with Jenna Wortham and the podcast she does with the very dope Wesley Morris for The Times called Still Processing, I became a dedicated listener last year during the pandemic. I had heard about someone with the incredible ass handle, @museummammy, a while back but didn’t connect it to Kimberly Drew until some point last year as well.
I’ve always been intimidated by the art world, you know? I would constantly feel like it was so far out of my reach or that the stuff I liked wasn’t the “right” kind of art. So when I delved more into Drew via social media, that feeling started to lift. It was like, here is this very fly round the way Black girl who is making me feel less daunted by this medium I felt wasn’t meant for me.
Dani Janae: I love that! Art can be so intimidating and I think it takes those kinds of guides to open your world to it. My immediate thought after going through this book is “I have a lot of people I need to look up now” and I think that’s sort of how art functions for me too. This book feels like walking around my local museum listening to a curated playlist.
Shelli Nicole: Yoooo I feel that entirely so.
Before I got the book, I had the plan of being like “I’m gonna treat this like the piece of art it is. I’m gonna make it the centerpiece of my coffee table and treat it with so much care.” Then it arrived and that changed. It’s so unbelievable that I had to truly use it. To write in it, mark it up, bend pages to save my favorites, and actually interact with it. Art that I can interact with has always been my favorite type, I was always the kid trying to tiptoe the lines at the museums to touch stuff hahaha! And to your point about looking up stuff, the curators suggest having something with you while you go through it so you can look things up as you go and that seems like a small suggestion but I thought it was SO COOL!
Dani Janae: Lol I’m loving imagining little Shelli getting too close to a painting! I haven’t written in it yet but I have specific pages marked off with sticky notes. There’s so much to think about within these pages, I love that there were names I knew and ones I needed to be acquainted with. I tend to write all in my books though but there’s something about the pages in this one that are calling out to me. What was a piece that jumped out at you?
Shelli Nicole: Documenting The Nameplate (Isabel Flower, Marcel Rosa-Salas, Kyle Richardson) — I have always found it beautiful to have pieces of jewelry with my name on it — I have over ten pieces right now lol. I saw my mother wear hers, cousins wear theirs and when I got my first one as a high school graduation present I couldn’t have been happier. I’ve always seen it as wearable art, especially in the Black and brown communities. I see it being worn by white folks all over IG or Carrie from Sex and The City, and constantly hated that folks would reject the origins of its coolness and beauty. How it came from the Black girls in your hoods that just wanted to flex. So to see that project in something like this felt so validating.
And I am such a lover and fan of zines, I always have been and had my own years ago. So the Independent Subtexts feature from Devin N. Morris was extra special to me. What bits grabbed your attention?
Dani Janae: Well because I’m from Pittsburgh I was all about the There Are Black People In The Future bit. I was there when all of the controversies went down with the billboard and saw people’s in time reaction to it, and I’ve always been curious about what brought Alisha Wormsley to that phrase and how she felt seeing her work be both challenged and celebrated
I also really loved the essay/poem by Hanif Abdurraqib because I love just about anything he does. I was very intrigued by the interviews, specifically the one between Shawne Michaelain Holloway and Tiona Nekkia McClodden about the internet and art. That interview was so interesting to me because to be an “internet _____” is kind of a pejorative and used to dismiss artists and writers who use the internet as a medium.
Shelli Nicole: DANI! That interview was one of my favs. When I read it I was just so pulled in, it made me think about our talks. When Holloway said that McClodden replied “I’m trying to get free” in one of their first message exchanges hit me like a box of rocks because damn me too.
Dani Janae: Right?? Yes that conversation was so vulnerable.
Shelli Nicole: I wanted to say the poems that I read also made me think of you. Honestly, my journey through this archive made me think of and be grateful for the Black artists of so many mediums that are in my own circle. I love tangibility, right? This book fulfilled that love, having this solid item I can touch and use it to share the things within it that I can’t was beautiful. I want to experience it, I want to gift it, I want to talk about so many parts of it and specifically do all those things with Black people.
Dani Janae: It really is such a celebration of not only Black voices but Black innovation. Like the wide swath of creatives named here is just unmatched. Yes, I totally agree, this will definitely be a coffee table book for me and one I want to talk about with my black friends and colleagues.
Shelli Nicole: Can we talk about that immaculate introduction they give us?
Dani Janae: “Like us, this book is not linear. Like us, this book lives and breathes beyond a temporal western framework.”
That hit me in the gut, it’s a bold statement to make in a world where it will most likely be heavily consumed by Black Americans in the western world, but I think there is something freeing there. Like a small little key that’s unlocking something for me. What it means to be Black is far greater than what western ideals can categorize.
Shelli Nicole: For me, it was, “Black Futures is not designed to be a comprehensive document.” I know that this book will also be heavily consumed by non-Black people who are looking to understand or connect with Blackness on a very surface level. That sentence felt like it was telling them that this is not the piece of work to look to for that.
Dani Janae: That’s a good point. I can very easily see this being consumed by non-Black audiences looking to get their foot into Blackness so to speak so I think that disclaimer was a smart move on their part!
Shelli Nicole: — and I know it’s not an art book, the editors make that clear, but it still made me feel like I don’t have to be so overwhelmed by that world. I hope there are more volumes you know? Like in 4 years Black Futures: Volume 2 comes out, and so on. We as a people are constantly creating and I would love to have more tangible curated pieces to look back at, like an encyclopedia collection of Black Futures!
Dani Janae: Ooooooo I hadn’t even thought of that! I hope so too.
Shelli Nicole: My absolute fav part? That cute ass convo in the DM’s between Kimberly and Jenna. Just two Black babes who were like “Hi – um you’re very cool and I wanna be friends and also work with you.” and now you and I get to have this conversation AND this beautiful book is in the world. I’m so happy about it — makes my little queer Black heart flutter with joy.
Dani Janae: Oh absolutely. It makes me want to be brave and do the same with someone whose work I admire.
Shelli Nicole: I’m so glad you’re my friend Dani, I am so grateful to chat with you in these convos and also kick it outside of work. You’re wildly talented, so true to yourself, and also a fucking stunner. Also very happy that I will never be alone under thirst traps that get dropped by hot older dykes on Twitter.
Dani Janae: Shelli! I’m so glad you are my friend AND we get to work together! That’s so incredible to me. You are so driven and sharp and funny, I love your energy. I can’t wait to talk with you more and just know you’ll never be alone in thirsting 😭.
The Drop: SassyBlack Makes Space for Black Women to Feel and Get Funky
The Drop is a new ongoing series where Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole chat about Queer Black Pop Culture. Today they talk about the High Priestess of Hologram Funk, SassyBlack, and her latest EP, Stuck.
In this time of shelter in place and post-election delirium, I’ve been relying profoundly on audio mediums to get me through the day. I split my time between audiobooks, podcasts, and music. You’ll never catch me not listening to something. Recently, I’ve been relying heavily on the music of Black women to comfort or rouse me. When I’m feeling mellow I liked to put on some Jensen McRae or Mereba, when I’m hype it’s Megan the Stallion, Tierra Whack, or Solange’s latest project. Now, I have another artist to add to this list: SassyBlack. With a name that calls to mind stereotypes of Black women, SassyBlack sets out to exceed your expectations with her funky beats, dulcet, deep tones, and thirst-quenching lyrics. I find myself walking around my apartment and singing the songs from Stuck. I was honored to listen to her new EP and share my thoughts with my eternal favorite, Shelli Nicole. — Dani
Dani Janae: Hey Shelli! I’m excited to hear your thoughts on this project.
Shelli Nicole: Hey Dani! Yes, I’m mad excited to talk to you about it! It was a perfect bite of Black goodness and I fucking loved the ride it took me on. I know it came across your way recently. Can you talk a little bit about the artist and how you found her?
Dani Janae: For sure! So I hadn’t heard of SassyBlack until she contacted me a couple of weeks ago to talk about her new EP, Stuck. It was recently released on November 6. She describes herself as a “multifaceted creative force” and it definitely comes across in the music. In one of the songs she describes her work as “hologram funk” and I’m a huge funk fan so I was interested in seeing what she had to offer!
Were you familiar with her at all?
Shelli Nicole: I was not! When I went to her IG page after you sent it my way I saw that a few homies of mine already were fans. She also has a huge following and after listening to the EP I can def see why. I actually listened to it on SoundCloud, it’s where I go when I’m trying to feel cooler than I actually am.
Dani Janae: Lol, I feel you. I first listened on Bandcamp but have been streaming it for the past couple of days. What did you think of the first track “Karen Don’t Care”?
Shelli Nicole: Right out the gate I saw it was four tracks, and then when I looked at the titles I felt like this EP was gonna feel like a conversation that you can only have with another Black woman. “Karen Don’t Care” was just how some of them can start. Lyrics like “she say she got Black friends, but can’t name none of them” and “she cares more about a dog — a cat a rat a LEAPFROG” are the absolute and sad truth about many a non-Black woman.
I’m also saying it right now — if Ziwe decides to make a musical, I will campaign for SassyBlack to help write the songs.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CB_bqzrppw5/
Dani Janae: Yesss, when I saw it was only four tracks I thought “oh cute this will be a super quick listen” and it flies by, but you definitely get caught up in the groove of each song. I loved those lyrics as well as the general funky, sort of house beat that lays under the track. Her vocals are also so smooth. Like, you can tell she can sing sing but she’s definitely situated in a very manageable, low register. At least in “Karen Don’t Care.”
Vocally she kinda reminds me of Azealia which I’m into. There are also so many layers to every song, but it all feels cohesive! I’ll definitely have these songs stuck in my head.
Shelli Nicole: It all flowed so well! Again, it felt like a conversation you can only have with your Black homie on that typa FaceTime call. Where it starts with y’all like “white women are at it AGAIN,” then the ups and downs of the realer shit while you’re cooking. Y’all hold space for each other with every emotion and then the convo ends with an “I love you sis” of sorts — which is how the last track rounded out the entire EP for me.
The last track, “Therapy” is the longest one and it was the most comforting track for me. The slow funk vibes, her voice with its comforting deep trembles felt like love. The lyrics “lay it on me” being repeated made me cry low key. I am currently going through something pretty big, and my regular support system is not the same because of the way the world is, but in this song — I felt held.
Dani Janae: Oooo yes that’s a great point, “Lighten your load” sung in that beautifully tantalizing harmony was so needed, and the way her voice builds as the song ends! I think there are a few artists that set out to make music for Black women and some of them do succeed. But in this EP it feels like there is a hand extending toward me inviting me into this circle of Black women, where our voices are centered and that’s so lovely.
Shelli Nicole: Yes! The centering of Black Women in this project is effortless. Like, in “What Do You Want.” Putting in her funky vibes while also being like “Y’’all literally all want something from me. What? WHAT DO YOU WANT?!”
Can you imagine what the release party for this album would have been like?!
https://www.instagram.com/p/CHx-YjJJJMu/
Dani Janae: “Therapy” and “Anxiety (The Heat)” are both songs around mental health which I found super important. I can’t help but think, with the election so fresh on my mind, how Black women are tasked with saving everyone including ourselves. What an emotional toll that takes. Like we literally are just boosting everyone up over our shoulders and no one turns around to extend a hand. For me, music has always been a healing space, so I deeply appreciate music like this that speaks to healing on that deep level.
Oh, and this release party would have been HOT.
Shelli Nicole: Finding songs that are so relatable when it comes to mental health as a Black woman are few and far between. Similar to you, I also use music as a healing tool, as a pseudo therapy session. I pick a song that matches my hurt in some way (joy too but def hurt) and am able to use that few minutes to pause and cry, play and feel, etc.
I appreciate her holding space and creating it for us with this EP, but I also imagine or hope that while doing this for us she found some healing and joy in creating it too.
Dani Janae: Yes absolutely. I can imagine her having fun with the production. As we’ve both said it’s a very funky, danceable EP.
Shelli Nicole: Sometimes though, when Black Women create music with the clear intention of making it for us, I want to enjoy it, and I do, but I can’t help but be like “but who is doing this for her?” You know.
I’ll use Solange When I Get Home as an example. I’ve used that album as a healing tool and then feel like “How can I thank her? How can I hold her? Is she resting after doing this labor for me?” And that’s how I feel with this EP and SassyBlack.
Dani Janae: For sure, I don’t think we consider that enough in our consumption of music.
Shelli Nicole: Agreed. Perhaps that’s just what comes with how I think as a Black woman when it comes to other Black women, with high care and the want to protect.
One of the big ways to show love is to def keep streaming and supporting. Saying thank you with dollars and also with words.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B-w4qpPpqmx/
Dani Janae: Yes absolutely! I need to actually buy this EP as well as streaming it as I’ve been doing. I also need to stay tuned for future projects!
Shelli Nicole: Thanks for recommending the artist and introducing me. Love talking to you always!
Dani Janae: Thanks for chatting with me! I always love our conversations
Visit SassyBlack on the web to stream her projects and support the artist.
Hulu’s “Bad Hair” Skewers Racist Beauty Standards in a Film That’s Half Horror, Half Satire
This post was written by Dani Janae and Shelli Nicole. Spoilers below for Hulu’s Bad Hair!
Dani Janae: I’m so excited to hear your thoughts on Bad Hair!
Shelli Nicole: When I saw the ads for it I knew I wanted to talk with you about it. I wanna start by asking you why you dig horror films so much! I know you’re a fan and last year was the first time I saw your 30 days of horror films on your IG story during spooky season.
Dani Janae: I love this question: I dig horror so much because I find it to be the best medium to explore what it means to be human. Fear is such a universal and primal emotion: it shows us who we really are and what we are made of. I think it’s so versatile. Like you can have a love story in a horror film but I’ve never seen a romantic comedy or drama with horror elements, ya know? I’m also just so fascinated by what has scared people across time
Shelli Nicole: Whenever I watch horror my fascination is the actual gore. My favorite horror genres are Body & Revenge and in some way Bad Hair encompasses both. I don’t think I watch horror movies to be scared, I let thrillers and musicals do that for me.
When I first heard about Bad Hair, I actually thought it was an extended version of the short, Hair Wolf, and realized I was wrong. Then I thought it was an extended version of the Random Acts of Flyness sketch “Bad Hair” and was wrong again. Then I found out that it was by the same person behind Dear White People, queer Black writer/director, Justin Simien and kinda got excited but also nervous about it.
To me, although I watch them, shows like DWP feel like they are trying to explain the Black experience (or elements of it) to a white audience (or non-Black) and I kinda got scared this movie was going to do the same thing.
Dani Janae: I’ve never seen Dear White People so I went in to this not expecting much just because I’m not familiar with Simien’s work. I had reservations because I notoriously do not like horror comedies;I don’t mind if I laugh during a horror movie, but I feel like horror comedies lean heavy on the laughs
Shelli Nicole: So when you’re watching horror films you’re like, I’m not hear for a laugh I am here for some fear and emotions.
Dani Janae: Exactly! I’m here to be bundled up on the couch with the lights out and jumping at every sound.
Shelli Nicole: I usually arrive wanting to see body parts, blood, deep screams and tears. I lean in to the screen with an oddly sadistic smile.
So let’s get into it. Bad Hair centers on Anna (Elle Lorraine). She has a love for music and has big dreams of becoming a VJ (think back to the days of TRL). I’d like to say that I too had similar dreams so I can understand her completely. She works at a network called Culture and once their boss, Edna (Judith Scott), a natural haired and dark skinned woman, leaves the network, Zora (played by my Christmas queen Vanessa Williams), takes over. She’s lite skinned, a former supermodel and most importantly — has good hair in the form of a sew in.
Miss Zora is trying to make some changes and the first thing she suggest is for Anna and others to ditch the natural looks and go for sew ins.
What’s your relationship to wigs and weaves? You have some BEAUTIFUL tresses, I have asked several times about your twist out methods but were you always natural?
Dani Janae: I haven’t always been natural. I was until I was about 11 or so when I got my first relaxer. Before that I had my hair straightened with a hot comb and grease. I had a weave once: I got micros for a birthday and it hurt and took forever — I related to Anna’s hair sensitivity— so I never went back. I go back and forth every year about doing another big chop. I did mine my second year of college and have been growing it out since
I always wanted to get into wigs but never went there. What about you?
Shelli Nicole: I got my first relaxer around the same time as you. I begged for it and my mom finally gave in — it was fucking terrible and my mom just read her hair magazine while Shonica put the creamy crack in my hair. I’ve been completely natural for a while now, but I used to be a huge fan of sew ins. I actually still am, I just haven’t gotten one in a while. I usually wear my hair in protective styles like crochet braids but I also will do a natural blow dry and add in pieces. I love a good wig but am not nearly as good as the folks on YouTube who make it seem so easy installing them, so only wear them occasionally.
And on the topic of Anna’s hair sensitivity, lets’ talk about THAT SCENE — the one where she finally gives in and gets a sew in from Virgie, played by Laverne Cox. It was PERFECTLY filmed in my opinion.
Dani Janae: That scene for me was a perfect example of body horror, I loved it. I was so tense watching it!
Shelli Nicole: It was the type of horror I came for. It was one of the times when watching the film that I felt was specifically for Black viewers. Like, we know that pain — but to see it, to HEAR it. The braids being tightened, the hair pulling at the scalp, the tearing of the skin sometimes with the blood. It made me cringe but also made me lean in — I rewatched that scene about three times.
It was actually terrifying. What made it extra horrific was how calm the stylist was while doing it.
Dani Janae: When Anna cried “you almost done?” I felt that!
Shelli Nicole: It was like she was the killer in the horror films who happily goes around killing everyone.
Dani Janae: Yes exactly, she got very little screen time but I loved her attitude and her demeanor
Shelli Nicole: Okay, so we will talk about how the movie progresses but can we talk about the stars in this movie?!
Dani Janae: Names on top of names! When I saw Usher I yelped. I recently binged Moesha so seeing him on the screen again was a delight
Shelli Nicole: For me it was MC Lyte!
I have always had a little crush on her, that voice — phew. But so many people are in this movie. Blair Underwood, Kelly Rowland, DAWSON!
Dani Janae: Omg yes!! I like that the actress at the center wasn’t as big of a name, though I enjoyed seeing Vanessa Williams and Kelly Rowland. Also fucking James Van Der Beek.
Shelli Nicole: So as the movie goes on, Anna and her new hair start feeling themselves and she starts reaping the rewards of being a Black woman with good hair. She gets looked at kinder by the white folks, the trash nigga she was fucking wants to get back at her, and opportunities at work start to open up more. Have you found this to be true — the better your hair, the better you get treated? (Better being a word that I use terribly loosely.)
Dani Janae: Hmmm, I think I have when I was younger. I have 4c hair and I noticed once I got my relaxer people complained less about having to do my hair, I got more compliments on my looks, etc. When I went natural again I got lots of comments about how brave I was. Once at a restaurant a white woman told me she loved how ethnic I looked. As an adult I get a lot of well meaning white people that give you that “right on sister, I’m down!” Kinda attitude
Shelli Nicole: NOT ETHNIC!!!
Shelli Nicole: My mother always made sure my hair was done when I was younger, primarily because she had a lot of hair issues and bullying when she was a kid so she wanted the opposite for me, so I didn’t have issues with others but they were all coming from myself. I saw how the girls at church who were lighter skinned or had long pressed locs with cute headbands would have more boys looking at them, and didn’t get compliments from adults without some sort of caveat attached to them.
As an adult it’s mostly been white women who want to ask questions they can Google about my hair. Or, of course, think they can touch it.
But similarly to Anna in the movie, I have friends who won’t ever get a weave and prefer to stay natural. I liked that in the movie too: Lena and some of the other VJ’s were rejecting the changes that Zora wanted to put in place. But, what comes next is the part of the film that I hated and have a big problem with.
Dani Janae: Oooo do tell!
Shelli Nicole: Anna starts having a bit of issue with her hair beyond the headaches and itching and maybe starts to realize something is a bit off right? It’s obvious this is the part of the film where it’s time to start getting into some shit, and her landlord comes to collect the rent she is behind on — and while doing so attempts to rape her.
I am so done with the final girl in horror needed to be raped or sexually assaulted in some sort of way to move the story forward. In this case I hated it even more because it’s a Black woman and a dark skinned one at that. A lot of it can be connected with me having a history with sexual assault and rape but a lot of it comes from me being a lover of film and a writer, and using sexual harm to move a plot forward is lazy writing in my opinion.
There were simply so many ways they could have gotten that point across and pushed the story forward without having her be sexually assaulted.
Dani Janae: Yeah, we talk a lot in horror about how rape is used as a device to move the story forward and complicate the hero’s journey. It was an unnecessary moment, especially because the landlord had already been established as an aggressive asshole
We didn’t need him to be a rapist too (possibly a serial rapist at that).
Shelli Nicole: Exactly. They opened up this other plot line and wrapped it by having ANOTHER Black woman kind of confirm that he raped her. Yeah, he dies — but like, it still just was not needed.
Like I mentioned earlier, revenge films are my other favorite horror genre so I struggle a lot while watching because so many of them are women who have been raped or assaulted taking out their revenge. I get conflicted because I am like, ok yes — kill kill and take your power back but then I’m like, couldn’t it have just something different she is getting revenge for?
How did you feel about how the film progressed after this point?
Dani Janae: Yeah same, I always want to see women in horror have a wider arc than just getting revenge on a rapist/abuser.
I honestly felt kinda set up by the rest of the film. I thought we were gonna get more skin crawling, body horror moments but instead they introduced this possession story line. Anna’s hair basically comes to life and possesses her. The hair itself has a thirst for blood that I thought was interesting but the graphics and story just got so corny after that. I get it’s satire and is supposed to be kind of laughable but I felt like the tension in the film doesn’t carry after she kills her landlord
Shelli Nicole: Completely. I figured we were going to see more gore and that as the hair began to take more control we would really see what it could do. It started to get a little Hotep for me too but since you aren’t familiar with Simien’s work I will tell you, is not surprising.
Dani Janae: Yeah my other issue with the film was: what is it saying? You got a possessed evil weave on one side and natural hair on the other. The women that insist on staying natural meet a grim fate, they either die or never advance in their careers. It feels like Black women get caught in the crossroads. Get a weave and become an evil sellout or stay natural and never progress
Shelli Nicole: And perhaps it’s the eternal optimist in me, but haven’t we moved past that or at least made a huge fucking leap forward?
Dani Janae: Yes exactly!
Shelli Nicole: This is what I mean by Simien’s work being created and featuring Blackness but is for the education of non-Black people. It puts me at a crossroads with work like this. Like, if Simien wants to do the work of teaching non-Black folks about what our community deals with, shouldn’t I let him? Shouldn’t I want non-Black folks to be educated on Blackness from the massive issues to the mundane? And shouldn’t I be happy that it’s not only a Black person at the head who is telling the story but it’s also featuring Black people?
Dani Janae: Oh the movie also does another thing I hate: introduces Indigenous or African folklore without being specific about it. The story about the moss haired girl comes from a book of I believe African sort of fairy tales but like… where in Africa? Where’s the specificity? It also demonizes ancient cultures instead of uplifting them
Shelli Nicole: I didn’t think about that. I would have loved to know more and it felt like they were trying to make it an important focus (as it is the story behind the hair) but at every opportunity was forcing me to piece that story together from various other conversations spread out in the film.
Dani Janae: To your point: I was gonna say earlier, I’m all for black people who aren’t Tyler Perry giving other Black faces and Black voices screen time. I love when we celebrate our own, but do white people and their viewing experience always have to be called into question?
Shelli Nicole: Exactly. Towards the end I leaned heavily into the comedy and opted to focus on that. I made the decision to start watching it as the satirical horror comedy it was meant to be and started enjoying it more. The dialogue is what did it for me, the campy responses, the references to Black culture (Lena telling her co-worker she needed a new attitude after bringing up Patti Labelle took me way out) but then the actual ending in itself made me — cringe.
It wrapped up the folklore story that was introduced but now that I think back with your point in mind about the lack of detail, it leaves me with even more questions.
Before we wrap can we please acknowledge the soundtrack?!
Dani Janae: Yes it definitely succeeded on the comedy front. When Lena was giving her “I don’t want to die” speech, I was rolling. I told another friend that it succeeds as a comedy but not a horror comedy if that makes sense. I tried to come into it without my bias and just wanted to settle in for a good movie but left feeling nothing. The characters didn’t really stick with me. I forgot everyone’s name until I visited the Wikipedia page before our chat. The only thing that really struck me as the sew in scene and the soundtrack!
This soundtrack is GOLD.
I’m literally singing that song “I Get It” in my head right now
Shelli Nicole: i’ve rewatched the film a few times just to watch Kelly Rowland do hairography while being the fictional princess of Pop Soul.
Dani Janae: She was a shining spot in this movie.
Shelli Nicole: I’d also like to say that as much as I hate to admit it, Lena in overalls and a Maxine Shaw braided bob gave me a tingle or two.
And Vanessa Williams is the mean Mommi I aspire to be.
Dani Janae: LMAO, oh my god, I love that for you. Yes she was a dream! Still so fine
Shelli Nicole: Thanks bunches for giving me some of your Sunday to talk film!
Dani Janae: Thank you for spending some time with me, I loved talking with you and getting your perspective!