“L Word: Generation Q” Musical Episode’s Composers on Their Fight for an Emmy

The Emmys finally aired this week after being delayed by the incredibly necessary strikes this summer and fall. One of the nominees for Outstanding Original Music And Lyrics came from a little show we all know called The L Word: Generation Q.

During Gen Q’s third and final season, the series delivered a musical episode. Those are hard to pull off, and a musical episode using original music and lyrics is an even bigger challenge. But the show’s music team rose to the challenge, creating original songs that told stories and brought each character further into their journey. Showtime unceremoniously canceled the show, and despite that, the composers of the musical episode — Heather McIntosh, Taura Stinson, and Allyson Newman — fought for their song, “All About Me” to get an Emmy nomination, the second in the history of The L Word franchise.

Over the summer, I got to sit down and chat with these three awesome women via Zoom. Below is our talk about how the musical episode came to fruition and how they snagged an Emmy nomination with no studio support. Even though they didn’t win, they did something really admirable and hard.

The following interview has been edited for clarity and length.

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Sa’iyda: How did the musical episode come to be?

Allyson Newman: Marja, our showrunner, loves musical theatre, and has a background in theatre as well.

Heather McIntosh: Second season, we had a karaoke episode. And so Sophie, among other characters, got to show off their vocal chops. That was the first time we were like, oh gosh, we’ve got some real pipes on some of our actors here. We can really play with that idea.

AN: My recollection is that I got a text from Marja when I was on holiday in Australia at the beach, and she was like, wouldn’t it be fun if we did a musical episode? And I thought, yeah, that sounds so fun, thinking that’s never gonna happen. Cut to probably a couple months later, all of a sudden it was like, so about that musical. We were like, oh, it really is happening. I think it did ultimately come as a sort of surprise, but we probably shouldn’t have been that surprised by it.
But we were enthusiastically happy about it and excited.

HM: And then we had to think, how do we make said musical? How do we write said songs? How do we do this? And I’d known Taura for a while and always been such a huge fan of her work.

I thought, this is the opportunity we’ve been waiting for to get together and sent a text to her. We started talking about it, and I was just so thrilled that you were up for it. And then we got to work kind of almost immediately, right?

Taura Stinson: Heather reached out to me — I think I even reached out to her like, Hey, how are you? Would love to work with you. And then she was like, you know what, this is just so serendipitous because I think I have something.

And then, within a couple of days, she called me and I was, to be honest, a little bit nervous. Ooh, a whole musical episode. And I don’t know much about the characters, and I have to do this deep dive. I fell in love with the characters. I fell in love with the show.

How did it work? Did you get a script and they were like, these are the characters we want to sing, go write a song for them? Or was it a more collaborative process with the episode’s writers?

HM: We had a general outline. We knew that actors were going to have certain touchstone moments in this arc. We knew the premise. We knew that there would be a trip, each person would be having this big turning point moment that would be revealed to them in the story.

TS: This is like a new relationship for me. I’m looking at all these people, following and falling in love. They’ve known them for a while. I just see all the good parts, so it was great to be able to introduce our perspectives.

AN: She was able to just see things in a very global kind of way. And that was very helpful for us, because she could really hone in on what those lyrics were doing, and she just had a way to bring those things straight away to the forefront, which was really important.

The nominated song, it’s an anthem for the character, it’s a space where Sophie is really stepping into herself, and it’s a huge catalyst for what happens in the second half of the season for her. How did you decide it was going to be a ballad?

TS: You just have to listen to what the song wants. And the moment was so perfect. I think we pushed the tempo just a little bit to give it a little bit more energy. I think there’s something to say about quiet strength where you don’t have to yell when you’re done. You just say, listen, don’t say anything else, because I’m going to say this and I’m going to go. I think we all agreed it would be the best approach. She also speaks, you know, having this rap in the middle of it where she has so much to say that we have to fit into this song.

I’m a big musical theater fan myself. So I get that when you have these kinds of things, it’s because the character just can’t speak anymore; singing is the only way. And I love the fact that it was original music, because you can also do a musical episode where it’s all covers. I think there’s more of a challenge when you have to come up with songs for these characters. Was it hard to get into Sophie’s headspace? Heather and Ally, since you had been living with the show for so long, was it easy to know where she was going and where she was coming from?

AN: I think we understood where the character was and where she was going, and this was a pivotal moment. I feel like Taura got fast tracked, but sometimes I think the way you think about it was actually helpful to kind of get us to where it needs to be.

TS: It’s always like, we want this and we want that and we want this. And then you kind of lose your voice in the process sometimes, but to be able to write a song, not only for the character, but for each of us who have felt that way. When we feel that we need to be able to use our voices and to say no sometimes, which is not a bad thing. I think we hit it on the mark, because it all resonated with each of us in different areas of our lives.

So now we’re in this wild time. The show gets canceled, which was a blessing and a curse and a bummer and a whole bunch of things depending on who you are and how you feel about it. Emmy nominations come. How do we decide, you know what, we’re going to go out and we’re going to campaign for this song and we’re going to try to make this happen? Because Showtime abandoned not just the show, but the franchise pretty quickly. So you have no support, you make this decision, what does that look like?

TS: I’m going to give this credit to Ally and Heather, because I honestly didn’t know what to do with it. I write a lot for film, and so I haven’t written for TV as much. And it was so heartbreaking for everyone, because we’ve come to love these people.

HM: When we got the call that we were actually being considered, we were all floored.

Ally: I know. I was like, I have to see this in print — I can’t believe this until I see it in black and white.

TS: You know, the show’s been canceled. But you know it’s an even bigger testament for what the song means to people because it’s our peers that are voting for it. Everyone that has come up to me to say, we voted for your song and we love it, because they’ve been listening to it. It stood on its own, on the back of the show, and all the work that these ladies have done all these years.

HM: We just really believed in it; we believed in the song, and we made a really crazy thing. It’s wild that we got to make this episode in particular, in this whole journey, and that we got to write these songs, and we’re just so proud. We produced these things together, all three of us. We orchestrated all this stuff.

We made something really powerful, and it just felt like a shame not to at least try to celebrate what we were able to do here, and this song seemed like the perfect version. It’s all in keeping with the message of this song, and to actually like stand in it and say, we made something really powerful and we want to share it with our community and hopefully it will resonate with them too.

AN: I also have to say something about Marja herself as a showrunner. Whether you like the stories or whatever, Marja is a person that has gone out of her way to hire women, to hire queer people in all these key positions.

A lot of us would never have had a chance to work on such a big budget television series. She opened a lot of doors for a lot of people, and I think she really needs to be acknowledged for that.

I will give you that. Did you all know this is only the second time The L Word has ever been nominated for an Emmy? The other nomination was for Ozzie Davis — he received a posthumous nomination for Outstanding Guest Actor for playing Kit and Bette’s father in the original. So there’s also something that you all should feel incredibly empowered by the fact that you managed to pull this off with, you know, very few resources.

AN: Now that we have been nominated, a lot of people have been asking, why can’t I see it? I’m like, Showtime, like, called everything. All our royalties get pulled off as well. It’s funny. We got a really nice gift from Showtime, which was nice to receive. It was a beautiful bottle of champagne with an inscription on it of The L Word and Emmy nomination. And I was like, this is awesome. I thought to myself, what would have been a better gift is if you put it back on.

It’s so difficult to get a show up at all, let alone a show about women, let alone a show about queer women. So to actually have that on the air at all is kind of a miracle. So it’s sad that it doesn’t exist anymore.

If You Can Get 18/23 On This Quiz, You’ve Watched “The L Word” Too Many Times

I don’t know if you’ve heard of it but there was this show, The L Word, that was on Showtime from 2004-2009, and it was about lesbians and bisexuals and their romantic and sexual relationships and also it was about poker. If you can remember who dated or hooked up with who on The L Word, you’ll do just fine on this quiz!

Here’s Basically Everybody Who Was In “The L Word” And Also Is Gay Now

When the original L Word launched, “which of these actresses are gay in real life” was a common question asked of the cast members at press junkets and interviews. It was a different time, then. Leisha Hailey was the only out lesbian in the main cast. Kate Moennig was also a lesbian but it wasn’t okay yet to say so, at least not anywhere important or public or in print. Karina Lombard, Mia Kirshner and Laurel Holloman had all hinted at or embraced the bisexual label at some point, but both Laurel and Karina have since redacted the identification. Karina’s statement hurt the most, perhaps, as she indicated that being on the show was what convinced her she wasn’t bisexual anymore. Laurel, who’d identified that way after having an experience with another woman following her part in The Incredibly True Adventures of 2 Girls In Love, eventually came to feel that that relationship was a one-off and it wasn’t right for her to continue identifying as bisexual.

The L Word: Generation Q, however, is a VERY gay cast. So we’ll get through the first series and then move gayly onto the second!

Most recent update: May 2023

Here are the original L Word veterans who are now publicly gay, lesbian, queer or bisexual:

1. Leisha Hailey / Alice Pieszecki

The only out lesbian playing a main character when the show premiered, Leisha Hailey had been a musician and an actress for a decade, and famously once dated worldwide lesbian heartthrob kd Lang. While on The L Word, Hailey was dating Nina Garduno of Free City, which’s how the show scored so much Free City apparel for characters who definitely couldn’t truly afford $150 t-shirts. Mid-series, she formed the band Uh Huh Her with Camila Grey, who was then dating Clea Duvall. Then Hailey and Grey dated! She’s now in a relationship with actress Kim Dickens.

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2. Kate Moennig / Shane McCutcheon

Moennig is Gwyneth Paltrow’s cousin and has been playing queer and trans roles on television and in the movies since her first big break getting the part of Jake Pratt on Young Americans. Moennig figured out and embraced that she was gay while appearing in The L Word as Shane. For a while, her sexual orientation was basically an “open secret.” After The L Word she dated Holly Miranda for a while, was an ambassador for Wildfang and possibly dated Evan Rachel Wood. She has been married to Ana Rezende since 2017.

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3. Daniel Sea / Max Sweeney

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Daniel Sea is an incredible human who remains an activist and a DJ, doing indie projects and changing the world. They were out as queer and genderfluid when they began the show and told Drew in 2021, “I think the word I’d use for myself today is something like pansexual. I had sexual experiences with all different genders growing up.”

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4. Kristanna Loken / Paige Sobel

Loken was well-known amongst shameless lesbian gossip hounds (read: me) as the ex-girlfriend of Michelle Rodriguez and ex-kisser of Pink. Loken came out as bisexual in Curve Magazine in 2006 and showed up on The L Word shortly thereafter.

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5. Clementine Ford / Molly Kroll

Just as The L Word was ending, Clementine Ford appeared on the cover of DIVA magazine in a “coming out” interview that Ford immediately claimed did not actually happen, although she soon thereafter told The Advocate that she was gay, but wanted there not to be “this big emphasis on it.” She also denied rumors from DIVA Magazine that she’d had an affair with Kate Moennig, her on-screen love interest. She dated Linda Perry from 2009-2011, and married actor Cyrus Wilcox in April 2013.

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6. Jane Lynch / Joyce Wyshnia

As a character actress, Lynch never felt the need to come out, but has been living an openly lesbian life for all of her career. Her career has taken off since The L Word, and she also got married and then divorced. Also, she can do no wrong.

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7. Holland Taylor / Peggy Peabody

It was a gift from the great lesbian beyond when we learned in 2016 that our dearest most treasured Sarah Paulson and our dearest most treasured Holland Taylor were madly in love and not afraid to say so. That was the day I started writing this post, which I then abandoned, and then re-engaged with because we have no content for today! Fun story: the first time I became aware of Sarah Paulson’s existence was when I saw a reading of a play about making The L Word, written by Susan Miller, in which Sarah Paulson appeared. So did Kate Moennig. Now, here we are.

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8. Alexandra Hedison / Dylan Moreland

Hedison was the noteworthy ex-girlfriend of Ellen DeGeneres and a successful photographer when she joined the cast as Helena Peabody’s love interest Dylan in Season Three. She scored big in the Lesbian Mate Bingo in 2014, marrying Jodie Foster.

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9. Elizabeth Keener / Dawn Denbo

Keener was one of those up-and-coming actresses in TLW who was pretty clearly living the life of a gay lady but not ready to say so. AND THEN. “Gay Pride Weekend had such a buoying effect on Keener that the actress stepped out in public not one, not two, but three times, with rumored new lady love Jackie Warner of Bravo’s Work Out,” wrote Gawker in 2008. She was also linked to Top Chef’s Jamie Lauren,

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10. Guinevere Turner / Gabby Deveaux

Turner was part of the general social web that wrote and produced The L Word, having worked on films like Go Fish with people like her ex-girlfriend, co-executive producer Rose Troche. She was one of a handful of out actresses who appeared on the show because you cannot make the first american lesbian TV show ever without giving Guienevere Turner a part. She also wrote three episodes.

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11. Patricia Velasquez / Begoña

Velasquez had a bit role as the actress playing Marina in Lez Girls, but remained deeply closeted until 2015, when she came out and released a memoir about her life, including details of her relationship with Sandra Bernhard.

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12. Ali Liebert / Rebecca

Liebert was one of many Canadian actresses who played tiny roles with zero lines because The L Word shot in Vancouver. She went public about her relationship with her girlfriend in 2015 and has since played many queer roles on shows like Bomb Girls and Lost Girl, plus getting very involved in the Christmas Movie industry.

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13. Kelly McGillis / Colonel Gillian Davis

McGillis played a closeted Colonel trying to kick Tasha out of the military in Season Five of The L Word. McGillis herself remained in the closet until a few months after TLW wrapped up, coming out as a lesbian in May of 2009.

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14. Sandra Bernhard / Charlotte Birch

Bernhard has been an out bisexual comedian for many years, going back to her rumored romance with Madonna in the ’90s, which is one of my favorite things to ever happen.

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15. Heather Matarazzo / Stacy Merkin

Heather Matarazzo came out discretely in 2004, and began a guest role of Stacy Merkin on The L Word in 2007. She began dating musician Caroline Murphy in 2007 and the two broke up in 2012. She also played gay in the short-lived Logo series Exes and Ohs. She married Heather Truman in 2018.

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16. Anne Ramsay/ Robin

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17. Tammy Lynn Michaels / Lacey

Melissa Etheridge’s ex-girlfriend‘s acting career never fully took off, but she had a very memorable turn as Lacey, Shane’s insane stalker, in The L Word.

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18. Patricia Melone / Woman #1

Melone, who eventually became a spokeswoman for lesbian vacation company Sweet, crashed the set of Lez Girls with Dawn Denbo in Season Five.

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19. Lucia Rijker / Dusty

Rijker is a world-famous kickboxer known as “the most dangerous woman in the world” who appeared twice on the show, once as Dana’s trainer and again as Helena’s jailhouse lover Dusty. She was actually Ilene Chaiken’s personal trainer at one time, and the two were working together on a project about female athletes. In 2008, she told Curve Magazine that she doesn’t put a label on her sexuality.

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20. Luvia Petersen / Dax and “Cowboy”

Peterson, another Canadian actress, is bisexual. She played two bit parts on The L Word, including Dax, an employee of Ivan’s garage.

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21. Brynn Horrocks /  “Flight Attendant”

What a role! What a time to be alive!

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L Word: Generation Q: Who is Out as Lesbian or Bisexual

The L Word: Generation Q made efforts to employ queer actors for the main roles, although not all the actors on the show have ever spoken publicly about their sexual orientations. But some have!

22. Jacqueline Toboni // Sarah Finley

The only out girl in Toboni’s high school gave her The L Word box set on DVD and told her to “figure it out.” Eventually, she did! She’s now happily in a relationship with model Kassandra Clementi.

23. Arienne Mandi // Dani Nunez

Of her sexuality, Mandi has said, “if there were to be anything close to what I feel, it would be pan. I accept love in all forms and I give love. It’s just all love.”

24. Rosanny Zayas // Sophie

Rosanny has shared many cute stories of sneaking around to watch the original series as a teenager and told OutSmart Magazine, “I’m open to falling in love with someone’s personality and how we connect as people.”

25. Stephanie Allynne // Nat

Allynne met her now-wife Tig Notaro on the set of In a World. Prior to meeting Tig, she’d never dated women, but according to Allyne, “I was so into Tig and I was falling in love with her and I didn’t know how to identify it because I thought I was straight.”

26. Mercedes Mason // Lena

After Season 1 of Generation Q premiered, Mason came out on Instagram, telling her followeres “Usually I’m pretty private about my private life but its’ important for me to discuss my bisexuality because I grew up always being told it was a ‘phase.'”

27. Jillian Mercado // Maribel

Following the premiere of Generation Q, Mercado said on her instagram, “I am proud to say that I’ve done so many great things for the disability community (there is so much more to be done done tho). Over the course of this year I had the absolute honor to know people from all communities that make me me. That being a woman, having a disability, being Dominican, and finally I can add to that magical layer being queer.”

28. Jordan Hull // Angie

When saying goodbye to the series upon which she became a fan favorite and won all of our hearts right over, Jordan Hull posted on instagram: “Endless love for the family I’ve made on this show. I’m the luckiest queer in the world to be raised by a bunch of queer superstars.”

29. Olivia Thirlby // Rebecca (Season 1)

When she participated in the self evident photo project in 2011, she said she was honored to be a part of it because “it’s a way of me showing gratitude that I live surrounded by a community in which I don’t have to hide their sexual orientation…. and I am not one hundred percent straight.”

30. Rosie O’Donnell // Carrie (Season 2-3)

LEGEND ROSIE O’DONNELL Y’ALL ALREADY KNOW ALL ABOUT HER SHE IS GAY AND SHE IS CARRIE, TINA’S WIFE. TRANSCENDENT.

31. Paula Andrea Placido / Roxy (Season 3)

Paula’s racking up bit queer roles all over the map, from Hacks to Shameless to her turn as Dani’s longtime on-and-off will-they-wont-they friend with benefits in The L Word: Generation Q‘s final season.

32. Carmen Lo Bue // Dre (Season 3)

Carmen appeared in the Autostraddle Calendar as one of our 12 queer models for 2011 and describes themselves as “a Queer Non-Binary Afro-Pilipinx American Filmmaker with a passion for social activism that is expressed through their work as a creator.” They were a delight as Dre, a potential love interest for Sophie and for Dani in Season Three.

33. Heidi Sulzman // Misty (Season 3)

Heidi Sulzman, who played Carrie’s girlfriend Misty in Season Three, is married to a woman and has a son and also did a some stage theater with showrunner Marja Lewis-Ryan in the past!

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast Bonus Episode: Goodbye, Again

By now you’ve surely heard that The L Word: Generation Q is no more, and boy are we sad about it! After months of bated breath, we received word last month that the show will not return for another season, and to top it off, is no longer available on Showtime anymore. On the…brighter? side? Maybe? We have also received word that original series showrunner, Ilene Chaiken, is already back to the grindstone: hard at work on a(nother) reboot set in New York.

Come join us to commiserate the end of our problematic fave, to talk about the state of queer television at large, and what We, the hosts of To L and Back, would have happen to all of the characters after the end of this season!

• OR LISTEN EVERYWHERE YOU FIND PODCASTS
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SHOW NOTES

• Riese would like to amend her assertions about The Real World: Back to New York — it was filmed from January through June of 2001, and then premiered in June 2001 for 33 episodes. This means it was filmed before 9/11. However, she was correct that the Chicago season was the one that was being filmed when 9/11 actually occurred.
• One last plug (I had to) for my Letterboxd, and Drew’s, where we continue to do absurd film-viewing projects
• Also this is Riese’s letterboxed for kicks
• Our team’s tribute to A League of Their Own
• Riese’s eulogy for One Mississippi
• Drew’s Lesbian Cinema Encyclopedia
• The cast’s goodbyes to the series
• Our ranking of every sex scene in Gen Q! (To end on a light note.)

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Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is To L and Back.

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q edition.

Analyssa: Generation Q edition.

Riese: Back to New York.

Drew: Back to New York?

Analyssa: Well, not yet.

Riese: Not yet. Sorry, that was a reference to season 10 of The Real World where they went back to New York and they called it The Real World: Back to New York.

Riese: Because the first episode of The Real World… The first season of The Real World was in New York.

Analyssa: What year, approximately, do you think season 10 of The Real World aired?

Riese: 2002 or 2003.

Drew: I was in elementary school.

Riese: Because I think 9/11 happened during the Chicago season. The first season-

Analyssa: Did they have to address that in the universe of The Real World? I know it’s about the real world, famously, but did they discuss 9/11? Was it happening while they were filming?

Riese: Yeah, they watched it happen.

Analyssa: What?

Drew: Wow. I don’t think I have an understanding— The Real World was never something I watched. I think by the time I came to The Real World universe, it was Real World vs. Road Rules. It was years later.

Riese: Well, it stopped being good around, I would say, the Las Vegas season. It started taking a turn where it became like a lot of reality shows are now, which is just about young hot people drinking a lot and having drama, you know?

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: But in the beginning, it was very much a genuine social experiment of mixing people from all these different backgrounds, especially at a time when the internet wasn’t a thing, so people really didn’t know about anything besides their own little world, and putting them all in a house together and seeing what would happen. A lot of interesting things came out of that, but then the vibe shifted as MTV shifted more towards those types of party shows and The OC, or whatever that was called, Laguna Beach or something.

Analyssa: Laguna Beach.

Riese: And Super Sweet 16 and Teen Mom and all that kind of stuff. The vibe of MTV was shifting away from progressive, social, alternative, indie rock, whatever, towards more trashy reality TV, I guess, which has a place in the universe.

Analyssa: Which was my favorite era of MTV. That was the era I grew up in. Also I watched Reality Bites last year in my rom-com project, and Reality Bites is about that shift.

Riese: Great film.

Drew: I liked Jackass.

Analyssa: I forgot you were a Jackass kid.

Drew: I really was.

Analyssa: That was not my vibe.

Riese: One thing no one ever talks about is I Want a Famous Face. Does anyone remember the show?

Analyssa: I do remember that show.

Drew: Is that the show where people got plastic surgery to look like famous people? I vaguely recall that.

Riese: People didn’t talk about it enough at the time, and they’re not talking about it enough today.

Analyssa: That’s how I feel about the reality show The Swan which was fucked up.

Drew: Oh The Swan.

Riese: That was wild. Every now and then I get into another Swan rabbit hole and just get lost in what a time that was.

Drew: I’m scared, because I do think that cyclically in media — and maybe this can get us to The L Word — I do feel like we’re back in a place where queerness is going down, fatphobia is going up, where I am feeling because of my young age of 29 that I’m experiencing a backslide culturally in a way that I maybe never have. Obviously Donald Trump was elected president in my lifetime, but that galvanized people in a way where, yes, he was president, but the culture around me… my mom was all of a sudden liberal, you know?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: It felt like people were getting more liberal around me, not less.

Riese: Well, and also in art, when Donald Trump was elected, the amount of shows that had queer characters skyrocketed, the racial diversity of shows, because suddenly it was like, “We’re in this hellscape. We have to…” Suddenly people were finally on board with doing all these things that we were asking for forever, because they were no longer in this like, “Why do we need more diverse TV shows? Obama is president,” you know?

Drew: Right. Weird. I don’t know. I know that progress isn’t linear, but it’s still jarring. Certain things have been jarring in recent months. Look, not to keep dragging my family into this, but I’m aware that fatphobia was alive and well before six months ago, but I at least thought in certain circles… I don’t know. Just, it’s wild to me how, I don’t know, the way people are talking about gender and sexuality, the way people are talking about race, the way people are talking about bodies, it feels like we’re in a bad moment.

Analyssa: I feel like this has been a topic of conversation about Gen Z too, and their reaction to sex scenes and sex in culture. I don’t know, I haven’t really noticed this personally, so I can’t really say whether it’s accurate or not, but I do feel like people are talking about that a lot, that there’s a move towards more…

Drew: Puritan.

Analyssa: Puritanical, for lack of a better word, views on sex.

Riese: I think that was easy to call, the forces leading to that.

Drew: Should we share that this is a podcast where we talk about The L Word: Generation Q, a show that no longer exists?

Riese: It was, yeah. This is a podcast where we talk about The L Word: Generation Q on Showtime, a program that brought our community together.

Drew: And tore us apart.

Riese: Brought us to new heights of life, and now I guess is over. It has been canceled.

Drew: Which we knew.

Analyssa: I know.

Riese: Well, I really think I was in denial.

Drew: There’s something that’s also important to obviously talk about, which anyone listening to this podcast I’m sure knows, which is that the cancellation announcement was paired with an announcement that Ilene Chaiken is already working on The L Word: New York, which my question is—

Riese: Why?

Drew: Why would be one question. That not so much. The question I have more is, will we ever actually see The L Word: New York? Shows get announced all the time. The Farm never happened. Is it something that’s being announced in order for Showtime to not have gay people angry at them, or do we think that it’s actually a thing that’s going to someday be real? I have my doubts.

Riese: I have no fucking idea, because “in development” means nothing. It feels like the way that was released was as a rumor. The reporter who reported it was like, “I hear,” which I assume meant that she heard from Ilene Chaiken or from somebody else in that universe or whatever. It seemed a little bit odd for that to be happening after there was this big fan push towards, “Reboot the OG series again, put Ilene Chaiken in charge,” as if everyone forgot that she did so many things right, but she did so many things wrong. Suddenly everybody’s idealizing Ilene Chaiken.

Drew: As people do to the past.

Riese: As people do to the past, and wanting her to bring back the show or have a new showrunner. So, it seems interesting that they would say that. I just wonder what is going on behind the scenes, what the rumblings are, and does this mean the original cast would be a part of it? Are Bette and Tina going to be there? Or are they going to be in Toronto doing Murdoch Mysteries? Who would be in New York? Also how would that work out for us in terms of whether or not we would get invited to any parties?

Analyssa: Which is number one on the agenda.

Drew: I don’t know. It’s also a question of, do we want that?

Analyssa: To be invited to the parties?

Drew: No, obviously we want to be invited to the parties, but do we want The L Word franchise to live on, especially back in the hands of… If it was announced that it was like, I don’t know, who’s someone who’s cool that we like and is a good writer? And it was like, “This person is going to be doing a new L Word.” I’d be like, “Incredible, amazing. I love it.”

Analyssa: Riese Bernard.

Riese: Tanya Saracho.

Analyssa: Better answer, I guess. Sure.

Drew: Yeah. If that was announced, it’d be crazy. But I don’t necessarily know if I need more Ilene Chaiken L Word. I don’t really know what that’s going to offer. I don’t know. But it is also one of these things where I think a lot of the problems of Gen Q were baked into the premise in the sense of having now watched the Queer As Folk reboot, which I liked more than some, but it wasn’t perfect by any means, I think the idea of a queer ensemble show that is trying to be everything is going to fail always, both artistically and creatively. I think A League of Their Own comes closest, and it’s because it really grounds it in a certain history and is not trying to be everything per se, even though I think it does a really good job at representing a lot of different identities, but still, it at least has baseball to be based around. I don’t know.

Riese: But they also don’t have to… They have certain rules about how society was structured at that time in history that gives them a box from within to tell their story, where I think there’s less room to totally fuck up what you’re doing. You know what I mean? You can’t put Micah and Maribel’s story into A League of Their Own. It would never happen so therefore it would never be fucked up. Do you know what I mean?

Drew: Sure. But I do still think that the League of Their Own reboot spends half of its runtime on Black characters, which in rebooting the original League of Their Own, that wouldn’t be the choice that I think a lot of writers would have taken.

Riese: No.

Drew: Also so many people are gay or queer, and also they include trans characters. I do think they do a pretty impressive job, but that show is also getting canceled.

Riese: That’s the thing. Because people were like, “Why do we need this? Why can’t we just have a really well-written show about queer people?” And I’m like, “There is one. It’s called A League of Their Own. It came out last year, and it just got canceled.” We got that. That imaginary show we were all dreaming of that had an ensemble that was all the main characters were queer and it was just their stories, and it wasn’t just about white people and it wasn’t just cis… We got it.

Drew: It’s a bummer. I do think that if we were to get The L Word: New York, I would want it to be like — it’s so funny, because this show got such backlash, and I understand why — but Looking, where that show wasn’t very representative of all gay people in San Francisco. It was very white, it was very, very cis, but it’s really good, and it feels like it’s people who all are in the same world together. There are times where its somewhat sheltered characters are pulled out of their world in ways that I think are well-done. Speaking of Tanya Saracho, she was a writer on it. And Vida is another one where that’s a specific queer space.

Riese: A community.

Drew: Gen Q not having trans women characters was brutal because they tried to have it seemed like every other character… and they did a bad job with all of them that weren’t whatever. But in general, I don’t want Ilene Chaiken writing a trans woman. That’s a nightmare. I don’t want that. I want her to make—

Riese: Write the Bette and Tina show, and it’s middle-aged… or lesbians in their fifties and sixties and stuff, their lives or whatever; whatever it is that she can speak to I think, whatever that looks like. The social group represented in Gen Q was realistic except for that there were no trans women in it. There wasn’t anyone in that social group who wouldn’t be ordinarily, no one felt stuffed in, you know what I mean? But I don’t know.

Drew: Identity-wise, no, but writing-wise, yes. Writing-wise, they never really knew what to do with Micah. That’s more I guess what I’m getting at, is theoretically you can have a lot of… There are plenty of friend groups that are very diverse in the truest meaning of that word, but a lot of times writers can’t really make that work, because that’s not their experience.

Analyssa: I do think it’s worth noting — well, there’s two things I want to talk about — but the first thing is Ilene Chaiken developing this, like Riese said, “in development” doesn’t really mean anything. It means someone has some idea that they’re thinking about at home sometimes. But it also doesn’t mean she’s writing. Ilene Chaiken developed The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And then she brought Marja in as a showrunner, and then they assembled a writers room.

Riese: So, it could still be me?

Analyssa: It could still be Riese. All three of us could find our way into The L Word: New York.

Drew: Oh my god, my phone’s ringing right now. Ilene!

Analyssa: I was thinking about this on the drive home from work, because I actually have a lot of thoughts about the business side of this, because that’s what I do for my day job, but I think it’s probably pretty boring to people listening. But Ilene Chaiken is going to be involved as an executive producer in developing any L Word reboot for the rest of time. Anytime The L Word comes up, Ilene is going to be at least involved in the conversation, and for all the reasons that Drew said and Riese has said, good and bad, you know what I mean? It means something to people, but also it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the best product, but it just comes with the property now, which is just something for people to know when we’re talking about something like this. It’s always going to be Ilene Chaiken’s L Word, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s Ilene Chaiken’s L Word, if that makes sense.

Riese: That’s true.

Analyssa: The other thing was that I feel like we all read the announcement of her developing this show differently. I was like, “I think it’s The L Word with all new characters in New York City.” Is it a period piece? I have no idea. But it’s just a group of lesbians in New York City, and I think Riese had a different take.

Riese: I thought it was going to be the original cast members, shedding Gen Q, and either they were going to go back in time to have it take place in 2010, 2011 when Bette and Tina allegedly just moved to New York. Because also at some point Shane moved to New York, because Shane had the salons. Shane moves back to LA in the beginning of Gen Q. So either it’s going to be a prequel or whatever, which would be great, because then Shane would have the eyeliner again and we’d all get to relive that, and that was a meaningful thing for me personally. It’s either that or I think it’s going to be the original cast, but I don’t know how they would all get to New York. But also it’s about LA! That’s the whole point of The L Word. I love New York. New York City is my favorite city, but I think The L Word is an LA show. It’s about lesbian life in LA.

Drew: Well, that’s why it has to say “New York” in the title. Again, that’s why it’s called The L Word: New York. My thought process, when I first heard it, I thought entirely new characters, just lesbians in New York present-day. Then I was like, “Or-”

Riese: Why?

Drew: “What if it’s a 90s…” Well, because I thought of it as a Queer As Folk-type thing.

Riese: Then why use the name?

Drew: Because it’s easier to get a show made.

Analyssa: Well, and because it means something. The Real L Word, why call it that if it’s… You know what I mean? Why? It’s not a scripted show, but it had the same idea at its center, you know?

Drew: Yeah. I think that potentially it takes place in the ’90s. New actors are cast to play our core characters.

Analyssa: Oh my God.

Drew: It is a prequel, but we get Shane; someone’s cast to play ’90s Shane.

Riese: Could Kristen Stewart play ’90s Shane?

Drew: Can you imagine?

Riese: She’s never done TV besides being on Irma Vep for one second. But if Kristen Stewart was cast as baby Shane, that would be a hit right there. That’s a hit. That’s a hit.

Drew: She’s too old, though, for ’90s Shane. They need to cast someone who’s 20.

Analyssa: But ’90s Shane had lived a lot of life by then, you know?

Drew: That’s true, that’s true.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I really did think before this show started Kristen Stewart was on the get list for The L Word. It was announced—

Riese: She’s never going to do TV.

Analyssa: No, certainly not. But it was announced in 2017, 2018 that they were developing it. It was peak Kristen Stewart coming out, talking about being queer, publicly appearing with people she was dating. And I was like, “This is going to happen.” That feels so, so long ago now.

Riese: What they really should do is they should cast Jacqueline Toboni to play ’90s Shane.

Drew: Wow. That would be a choice.

Riese: I would love that. I would have such a good time.

Analyssa: It’d be so fun if they could bring back the young members of Gen Q as prequel members of the original L Word cast, except that none of them were ethnically diverse enough. You could retcon a bunch of people.

Riese: What if it was just a shot-by-shot remake of The Carrie Diaries, but everyone’s gay?

Drew: I haven’t seen it, but I was thinking The Carrie Diaries. It was The Bette Diaries. Was Bette ever in New York?

Analyssa: Mm-hmm.

Riese: Well, she went to Yale, and that’s a train ride away.

Drew: So what happened? Do we know the history of that?

Riese: No, she was in New York. She was in New York.

Analyssa: When Alice and Bette were at the opera, isn’t that in New York?

Riese: No. I think she was in New York at some point. I’m pretty positive.

Analyssa: Maybe I just think of the opera as a New York activity, so I’m like, “They must have been on the East Coast then.”

Drew: Also when has The L Word ever cared about continuity or things being correct? They could easily be like, “It’s about Bette and Alice dating in New York.”

Riese: That would be your dream show.

Drew: It would be. Bette is played by… God, can you imagine how The L Word fandom would react if someone else played Bette or any of these characters?

Riese: But imagine a young queer actress playing Bette.

Drew: That’d be so cool.

Analyssa: Jasmin Savoy Brown.

Riese: That’s who I was about to say, Jasmin Savoy Brown.

Analyssa: Obviously top of mind because of Yellowjackets‘ premiere recently.

Riese: There you go. Cast, perfect. Jacqueline Toboni…

Analyssa: We did it.

Riese: I don’t know how I feel about the spinoff. Obviously it’s, again, hard for me to separate my own business interests from the interests of myself as a person, but I really enjoyed everything happening around The L Word: Generation Q so much, you know what I mean? I liked that I got to write recaps and people got to give me compliments about how good I am at recapping. I love doing the podcast with you guys. That crazy week in LA when it premiered in 2019 was a week to remember, and partially forget, but also remember. It was just very exciting. I guess the reboot came up during a time in my life when I was not doing very well, and it was a lot of excitement and fun and flurry and getting back into recaps, and I love that.

I think what I really wanted was for it to keep going, but with a new showrunner. That’s what I want more than an L Word: New York. I wanted this to keep going, but to be done; for them to, not get back to the drawing board, but kind of, you know what I mean? They can’t retcon anything, but try to fix a little bit and move forward. The showrunners switch out during series after a few seasons all the time, don’t they?

Drew: I guess because Marja had an overall, I was feeling less optimistic about that, which I think we maybe talked about. But it seems like Showtime wouldn’t necessarily invest… I don’t know. Whatever cost that would have entailed, I don’t think they cared enough. But I also think that, what shows are left? Yellowjackets and The Last of Us, which is another interesting… I know it’s only two shows and two shows don’t make a pattern, but it is interesting that the highest-profile queer shows that aren’t getting canceled are-

Riese: Genre shows?

Drew: Yeah, are violent and about… Yes, genre, but it’s not even genre like CW superheroes genre. Genre in the sense of really brutal, violent, scary, somewhat despairing television, which feels interesting. I think one of those shows is a lot better than the other one, but I don’t know. Obviously, Hacks is still on and I’ve since caught up on Hacks and think it’s great, but one of two protagonists…

Riese: And Sort Of.

Drew: Sort Of is so good. I guess because Sort Of is Canadian, I don’t think of it as indicative, but I guess HBO probably gives some money to it.

Riese: It feels just really scary that shows that are centered, the queer person is the star or it’s a queer ensemble, cannot seem to not get canceled. And there’s always everyone’s like, “We need to make our own stuff,” and it’s like, “No, you don’t.” I don’t want another 2,500 lesbian web series out there; that’s not what we need. Unfortunately, people who have the money do have to invest some of it if we’re going to scare ourselves on TV, you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But it bums me out, even though it was bad.

Analyssa: Well, and I would love for, like you said, queer-centered shows or shows with a bunch of queer characters to have the opportunity to be a little bit bad and still get a chance to find their footing, figure out what the problems are, get more on level ground, because I think there are so many shows that have really uneven seasons or a lot of drama behind the scenes or whatever; like you said, showrunner switches, and they still get to run for a number of seasons.
I don’t understand… I do, but I wish it weren’t the case that it’s the ones who aren’t allowed to really flounder a little bit are queer shows. And that’s not me being, “This was the best show ever, and it should have run forever the way it was running before,” because we obviously had our thoughts about it. But it’s not a show that doesn’t have an audience. And A League of Their Own is the same way. It’s not like people don’t love that show.

Riese: Yeah, people love it.

Analyssa: I don’t know. There’s always a reason, and that reason never seems to apply to other shows, even if they have the same kind of problems.

Drew: I do think that, again, it’s all cyclical, and TV in general right now is at a really bad place, writers’ strike coming up. And I do think it’s not that we shouldn’t be fighting for more and better. I think I probably place a little bit more emphasis on the “better” portion of that in the sense that I will miss the camaraderie and the community built around The L Word: Generation Q, but I do think we can ask for more and ask for better. I just think it’s a matter of time in the sense of there will be queer shows, the patterns will fluctuate; one streaming site will crumble, and a new wave of shows, whether it’s we go back to an old way of television being made or we go to a new way of television being made, there’s going to be another boom and then another bust, and it’s just always what happens. That has happened since the beginning of movies being made professionally and as an industry.

So, I don’t usually feel very doomsday about media in general, about queer media specifically. It sucks to be in this point of time where we’re losing these shows, and especially when you have attachments to certain characters; it sucks. But I do think things will get better again, and maybe even better than they ever have been. I do believe that. In looking at the GLAAD numbers that come out of, “These are the number of queer characters,” I would love if in the next wave of things getting better if we focus less… I think those numbers are like the Bechdel test in the sense of it can be helpful as a tool and as a test, but that’s not—

Riese: The end-all, be-all. You need a qualitative analysis as well as a quantitative analysis, and I think some of that has to be about community. We want shows that are about queer communities. That’s what Gen Q was, that’s what A League of Their Own was, that’s what Generation was: communities of humans who are all queer, because that’s really realistic. Instead of us just being part of a straight person’s story or one queer friend in the social group, which I know is common as well, but also queer community is really common, and we don’t see shows like that.

Drew: I definitely agree with that as one of the measurements, so I definitely will be sadder about the cancellation of something that centers queer people than the cancellation of something where there’s a subplot, or not even a subplot, but even one of the main characters. I’m not going to care as much. I’ll care if the show is really good, but I’ll be forgiving towards a Gen Q or a Queer As Folk reboot. I think what’s frustrating to me is that I would rather live in a world where we don’t have to be forgiving. That’s why A League of Their Own felt so special, and I’m really sad. It’s not official yet, so hopefully it doesn’t get canceled, or at least they get more than four episodes for this second and last season, because that felt like a real mix of a populist art that a lot of people could watch and have fun with and obsess over, but that’s also really good, and to me was like, “This is what we could be asking for.” So, that’s a bummer that that also got canceled potentially.

But I don’t know. I guess I’m just looking at the landscape, and in 2012, the idea that the company that sent us DVDs in the mail would make a big queer women ensemble with a trans woman involved about women’s prisons, that would have been wild. That’s 10 years ago, so who knows what the next 10 years are going to bring? I think right now feels really bad and sucks. I literally work in the industry; if people who have been showrunners and are queer, or specifically trans, aren’t getting jobs, I’m fucked. But I think I’m able to just be like, “Well, for now, I’m fucked for a few years at least, but then media always changes,” and I weirdly feel more optimistic when things are bad because I know that they’ll get better than when things are “good,” and we’re being told that everything is great because—

Analyssa: That we don’t need diversity on screen because someone is president.

Drew: Yeah, where it’s like, “We have Gen Q, so what more could you want?” Or, “Euphoria is…” I guess Euphoria is still on, still kicking, and it’s like, “What do you mean? You have this.” That drives me crazy, whereas there being nothing, even First Kill can’t get renewed, Warrior Nun is getting canceled. It doesn’t matter what type of show it is. I think that to me, I’m able to be like, “But there will be more shows that get made, and in the meantime watch Sort Of and actually talk about it, and if you’re not as excited about Sort Of, maybe examine some of your biases,” while at the same time understanding that it is a much lower-budget show that’s made in Canada. I’m in Canada currently myself, so that’s not a knock on Canada; it’s just the industry here is different, and it’s not the same kind of show. I get that. But also enjoy, and also there’s a hundred years of media that you can potentially catch up on if you would like, and there’s a lot of good stuff out there.

And there’s a lot of good stuff that’s made every year. I know it’s not the same to have a Gen Q that we have watch parties and everyone is talking about the same characters and all that, but there will continue to be great independent queer movies made every year. Television is tough because there’s a lot of moving parts to get TV made, but there will be movies that are made that you can watch, and more now than ever, or if not… I don’t know. I guess I just wish people would focus on that sometimes.

Not that we shouldn’t be having conversations about how Hollywood is treating queer people so terribly right now and how it’s connected to the political backlash. It’s not just like, “We’re not getting Gen Q anymore,” it’s also the attitudes around queer people legislatively is also bad. So, it’s not that we shouldn’t talk about it, I just do encourage queer people, if you feel hopeless, to remember that the queer artists who have worked on these shows, and who haven’t worked on these shows but should have worked on these shows, are going to keep making stuff, because people make stuff and people are going to want to create, and they deserve bigger budgets and more opportunities and money from Showtime. But if they’re not getting it, you can still find their creations somewhere.

Riese: But I want to be able to recap a show.

Drew: No, it’s sad. I think I sometimes do what my mom does when other people are negative, she reacts in the opposite.

Riese: I do that too.

Drew: She’s a leveling system, which sometimes is really nice and sometimes is a little maddening. So, I apologize if this is maddening to any listeners who are like, “Yes, but Shane.” I get it. But did Gen Q even have Shane the character? Let’s be honest with ourselves.

Riese: No. She was inconsistent.

Drew: Does Kate Moennig even think that Gen Q had the character of Shane on it? Because I’m getting no vibes from her Instagram.

Analyssa: Demonstrably not.

Riese: There’s going to be a reckoning also, because I think that the networks that are building these libraries of content, those libraries are a lot less attractive when they’re only one season long. This cancellation spree, at some point they’re going to have to sit down and be like, “Wait a second. What are we doing here? We’re not building…” You can join Netflix and you can watch, I don’t know, 200 episodes of Orange Is New Black or something, or a hundred. But are you going to get invested in First Kill, which has eight episodes, I think, or any of a myriad… On Hulu are you going to watch The Bisexual — you should — that has four episodes, five episodes?

Drew: Six.

Riese: Six. I think that they need multiple seasons of shows to have them. Otherwise I feel like they’re throwing away what they spent on the first one.

Analyssa: Especially because so much of, especially Netflix, anecdotally people’s watching is The Office and Friends and New Girl, things that have run forever.

Riese: These shows that went on forever, because people want things… And they don’t also want shows that ended knowingly. No one wants to be left on a cliffhanger; people want a fucking finale. You want a finale. None of these shows get finales.

Drew: If you’re going to kill Tess, show me Tess’s cold, dead body.

Riese: Show us Tess hanging off a highway overpass with blood coming out of her eyeballs, or give me death. Speaking of Tess’s fate, should we discuss what we think should really happen to all of these characters in the finale?

Analyssa: What we’re living in our heads for the rest of time with?

Riese: Well, I’d love to start out on a positive note and remember that we never got to see Angie and Bella have their love confession.

Analyssa: I forgot about them.

Riese: That is I think the next scene that I would want from Angie, would be her going to Bella’s and apologizing, and Bella being like, “But,” you know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: You know what I’m talking about, those scenes?

Drew: Yes. That would be really nice. I love that for those two.

Riese: And then Hendrix never publishes another word for the rest of his life and he has to work at Cold Stone Creamery.

Drew: I don’t think Cold Stone deserves him.

Riese: Actually, you’re probably right.

Drew: I hope Micah and Maribel patch things up. Maybe he’s sitting in the car, and then he takes a deep breath and he’s like, “This is absurd,” and then he goes back inside the house.

Riese: He’s like, “I only packed three T-shirts. And not even deodorant.”

Drew:
And he’s like, “Let’s talk this out.” He’s like, “Maybe we rushed into the whole baby thing. Maybe what we should actually do is just-”

Riese: See a therapist.

Drew: Yeah! “Let’s work it out, and if you do still want a baby, that can be something we can talk about.”

Analyssa: Maybe we see a doctor who can assuage a lot of these concerns first.

Riese: And talk to them about all of our fears and concerns and all of the complications, and decide what the best path forward is.

Drew: That sounds lovely.

Analyssa: I know we didn’t leave her on a sad note, so we don’t really need to give her a future, but I just feel like Sophie was on the brink of being like, “I’m actually ready to take a creative turn. I think I want to go do stuff that excites me.” Maybe that’s documentary making, as we’ve learned. I don’t know, Pippa…

Riese: Is she going to be broke?

Analyssa: Well, I think Pippa is a very wealthy artist.

Drew: I’m just saying that yes, all the queer shows are canceled, but you should seek out Sophie’s new queer documentary. You just have to get a subscription to Mubi and you can watch it.

Analyssa: Exactly.

Drew: It’s just $5.99 a month or something like that. You can watch Sophie Suarez’s new documentary. It’s eight hours long, and it’s fantastic.

Riese: Introductory subscription, 25% off. Anyone can watch it. I think that would be nice for Sophie. What I would actually predict for Sophie is that she enters into this thing with Pippa, but Pippa is very non-committal because she’s not going to commit to somebody who’s 20 years younger than her. And Sophie is kind of enamored, but Pippa doesn’t really give her the attention she desires. She thinks about doing the documentary, but freaks out and decides to stay on The Alice Show, which is also good, so that they’re all in the same set interacting, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Then of course Finley is back working at The Alice Show, and once again, Sophie finds herself back in the arms of her one true love now that they’ve both explored themselves and their experiences and Finley has dealt with whatever has happened with Tess, that then they come together in health and joy and then they have a baby.

Drew: Wow. That’s lovely.

Riese: And then they throw sperm vials at each other that cost $925.

Drew: I think that Tess wakes up from her coma, because she doesn’t die.

Riese: And it’s like, “Why am I friends with these assholes?”

Drew: I think she confronts the fact that living a stealth life has weighed on her, and made sobriety more difficult and other things more challenging. So, she decides to be more open about being a trans woman, and then she just forms this really great community of trans people and gets a trans girlfriend and just is thriving. That’s how I see her end.

Riese: I would love to see her working at a juice bar instead of an alcohol bar. Or remember those oxygen bars?

Drew: No.

Riese: No?

Drew: But I believe you.

Analyssa: You don’t remember those?

Drew: No. What’s that?

Riese: I guess you would go and get oxygen?

Analyssa: You would go and they would have little… It depends, but they would put them up your nose, like oxygen from a hospital or a little tube that you could suck in.

Drew: Was it flavored?

Analyssa: Sometimes.

Riese: Sometimes. I think so.

Analyssa: It was one of those…

Drew: Wellness?

Analyssa: Yeah. It was a booster shot like Kreation Juice. Or like how rich people get IVs brought to their homes so that they can have all their vitamins or whatever.

Drew: What if Tess realizes that what she really loves is bringing community together, so she opens up a queer, non-alcohol-centric space?

Analyssa: There are so many people online who would love that.

Drew: Like a bookstore or a coffee shop?

Riese: Yeah, a bowling alley.

Drew: Bowling alley.

Riese: Although my girlfriend doesn’t like bowling, so maybe a bookshop and coffee shop would be better for me personally. A roller rink.

Drew: Tess buys Stories in Echo Park.

Riese: Tess starts a swan boat company in Echo Park to compete with the present swan boat company, and then we get into swan boat company wars. No one has done that. That’s completely an unexplored topic on all of television.

Drew: That’s true.

Riese: No one has got into that at all.

Drew: Do we think Gigi works it out with Nat? Do we think Gigi and Nat go the distance?

Riese: Well, isn’t Nat still poly?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I think that now that they’re dating, and Nat of course is like, “Well, I’m poly. We should date other people.” And then Gigi is like, “I don’t really want to,” but then she goes on a date with Dani, and then yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, they realize, “Let’s give a throuple a try again.”

Drew: Wow, with Dani. See, I would love if The L Word: New York was Gigi and Nat moved to New York and they live their poly lives, and it’s just a really positive representation of a queer poly relationship, but it’s still in a messy way.

Analyssa: But not in a boring way.

Drew: The two of them aren’t fighting or cheating on each other, but they’re fighting and cheating on their various other romantic partners, but then they always come back to each other to process. That could be really fun.

Riese: Maybe they could live near Bette and Tina, so they see them in the grocery store, and Bette and Tina are like, “Ugh,” because those are our poly friends.

Drew: That would be a very funny cameo.

Riese: They all have children, so they’d all be in Park Slope with their little strollers. Well, I guess their children aren’t in strollers anymore, but you can put a kid in a stroller if you want to. It’s legal. I went to Disneyland recently and I saw a lot of them, so I think that sounds good for them.

Drew: I do think Gigi is too interesting to be with Nat, but sometimes I forget what The L Word always reminds me that sometimes really interesting people like to have boring partners because that’s the dynamic they like, whereas I do not understand that at all.

Riese: Well, we didn’t really get to know Nat that well.

Drew: That’s fair.

Riese: And I’m going to go on a limb here and say I don’t know how well-written any of these characters were in the end of the day.

Drew: Whoa.

Analyssa: That’s bold.

Drew: Hot take.

Analyssa: Brave. I liked Nat. I always thought she was funny.

Drew: You did like Nat.

Riese: You were a big Nat fan.

Analyssa: Well, I’m a big Stephanie Allynne fan, which is definitely inherited from an ex of mine, but I just think she’s so funny and charming.

Riese: She is really funny.

Drew: Speaking of shows that got canceled, if you haven’t watched One Mississippi, that’s still an Amazon. You can watch it.

Riese: That’s such a good show.

Drew: That’s one of the best shows to ever be made. It’s so good.

Riese: It’s brilliant. It’s so good. Two seasons. I don’t usually write entire posts about a show getting canceled, but I sure did for One Mississippi.

Drew: I remember that.

Riese: I said, “They canceled One Mississippi. I’m going to set my television on fire.” I think they canceled I Love Dick the same day or something.

Analyssa: Yeah, I think it was a big—

Riese: I was like, “Excuse me.”

Drew: Which again there’s always these moments where it feels like all hope is lost. And in fact—

Analyssa: And then sometimes you get an L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: I think what’s crazy is that right after Bette and Tina’s wedding, Tina died. That’s just so sad and brutal for that couple, that they finally get married and seem to be doing okay, and then Tina gets hit—

Riese: Maybe Tess and Denver railed into the little golf cart that Bette and Tina were driving off in.

Drew: And Tina died.

Analyssa: I can’t believe we’re just never going to know what happened to Tess. So mad.

Drew: It’s so brutal.

Riese: I know, that’s so annoying.

Analyssa: Why end it on that note when you know that you might not come back?

Drew: It is one of the most unforgivable sins.

Analyssa: When the odds are stacked against you, why would you make the cliffhanger she might die in a car accident because she’s not sober and neither is the person driving? Why couldn’t it be the cliffhanger is like, “Will Dani choose Roxy or Dre?”

Riese: You still have the trans person unhappy at the end of the episode, even in that one.

Analyssa: Sure. Will Angie go find Bella? There are so many other-

Drew: Angie could have run after Bella, and Bella’s on a date with some other, I don’t know. There are so many fun things that could have happened.

Riese: I wanted Bella to walk in.

Drew: That could have been even more fun. They kiss.

Analyssa: I really thought Bella was going to be Angie’s date to the wedding. I thought it was going to be a whole thing that was like, “I was going to bring Hendrix, but of course now we’re broken up, and also my moms hate him, so I couldn’t. Thanks for coming last minute.” And then Bella is like-

Riese: “How is my friend?”

Analyssa: Yeah, and Bella’s like, “Well, I always wanted to be your date to the wedding. Here’s why.”

Riese: I love the moment where they’re at the party and they turn around and they see that person standing there in their attire. Although I guess that exact thing happened with Dre, but it was not at the right moment.

Drew: Poor Dre.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Poor Dre.

Analyssa: Poor Dre.

Riese: Oh my God. I reread my recap just to refresh my memory of what happened. And Dre, they looked so cute in their suit. Oh my God, it broke my heart all over again for this fictional character. But anyway, that love triangle I’m sure would be messy.

Drew: And hot.

Riese: And hot also.

Drew: Because of what happens to Micah and what happens to Tess, I was not happy with how it ended with Dre. But as far as leaving trans characters or trans actors in a bad spot, at least that is fairly low-stakes.

Analyssa: That’s gay hookup show drama; that just happens in the natural course of things. The things that felt horrible-

Riese: Cruel?

Analyssa: Yeah, were like the cruel, “Oh, cool. We’re near murder-”

Riese: With Tess and with Micah.

Analyssa: “…and we’re near breakup for no reason.” It just felt bad. Who’s left?

Riese: Alice. Alice and Tasha back together.

Analyssa: Alice and Tasha I feel like live happily ever after. I do think The Alice Show gets canceled pretty brutally coming up soon, so that’s something we have to deal with. I bet Alice doesn’t-

Riese: If The L Word: Gen Q didn’t get canceled then The Alice Show would have.

Analyssa: Exactly. I think Alice would go on a podcast revenge tour trying to be like, I don’t know, “I can be famous without them,” but she ends up just being embarrassed about stuff she says. I don’t know, she’s so goofy.

Riese: I would love her to learn something from Tasha instead of just, you know?

Drew: I was going a different route. She has a standup special called Silenced.

Analyssa: Maybe she tries to do a standup special or a podcast tour or something. She tries to go scorched earth and Tasha’s like, “What if it’s nice that you don’t host the show? It makes you kind of unfun.”

Riese: “Why don’t you just start a home decor line?”

Drew: I would watch a Hacks-esque show-

Analyssa: Ooh.

Drew: …about Alice as the Jean Smart character and a young, let’s make it someone with a lot of marginalized identities, that Alice can just be terrible about. Let’s do that show.

Riese: I would love to eventually though see Alice evolve and change and grow.

Drew: Well, that would happen throughout the course of my spinoff show about the trans woman who’s stuck taking care of Alice’s ego.

Analyssa: She’s her assistant post-Alice Show cancellation, so it’s really just Alice management. There’s not a lot else going on.

Riese: I love that idea. That’s perfect.

Drew: Let’s see.

Riese: Shane.

Drew: Oh, God. I hope Shane just figures out being non-monogamous, opens up a salon.

Analyssa: You and Kate Moennig both.

Riese: Gets back into hair, maybe Ivy comes back in town.

Analyssa: I forgot.

Drew: Wait, Ivy has a kid, right?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: So, Shane finally gets her family and is a surrogate parent to Ivy’s kid, and Shane continues to learn and grow up, but also goes off and has sexcapades and it’s sometimes with Ivy, sometimes not with Ivy. Great stuff.

Riese: They did retcon that and have Shane suddenly be totally against having kids when Quiara wanted to have kids, even though she wanted to have kids when she was younger and she lost Shay. But I think we could retcon it back.

Drew: This is our show.

Riese: This is our show, so Shane’s getting the family that she’s always dreamed of with Ivy and her tank tops. Bette and Tina. We’ve already… Bette and Tina moved to Toronto and rented a condo.

Drew: And Tina died.

Riese: Okay, in Drew’s ending Tina dies. I don’t want anyone to die.

Drew: I don’t want anyone to die either, but sometimes it happens.

Riese: I don’t want anyone to ever die.

Drew: I know, it’s brutal.

Riese: Except Donald Trump.

Drew: But it was so sudden. It was really brutal.

Analyssa: Who’s left? Carrie and Misty?

Drew: Aw.

Riese: They’re cute. They remain Finley’s parents, and eventually grandparents to Finley and Sophie’s children.

Drew: Carrie gets some queer friends who are also fat and learns that she doesn’t have to-

Analyssa: Carrie starts hanging out in different circles than the ones that she’s been forced to hang out in.

Riese: Maybe she makes more bowling friends.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I feel like the bowling league is a great place to start for that. Now that she’s dating Misty, she hasn’t ruined the bowling league, so she can go back to the bowling league. I feel like that’s a great place to make new friends of all different ages, sizes, professions, class, all sorts of different stuff that she’s not been… at Bowl-a-rama.

Riese: Tess’ Bowl-a-Rama.

Analyssa: And Tess owns it. Exactly.

Drew: Oh, the show writes itself.

Riese: I did ask AI to tell me what would happen to Shane, and they said that she would keep working on her sobriety. And I asked what would happen to Tess, and they said that her and Gigi have a really strong connection and that they will keep building that connection. I thought, “Interesting. I wonder where you’re getting this from.” Anyway, I did provide feedback on both answers to correct their factual errors, so that-

Drew: Don’t teach the robot!

Riese: …hopefully it can become a better AI. Well, listen-

Analyssa: What did you feed into the AI?

Riese: I said, “What will happen next for Tess on The L Word: Generation Q?”

Analyssa: I see.

Riese: It gave me a lot of answers, but those were the ones that were funniest, because they were the incorrect ones. The other ones are pretty generic, you know?

Analyssa: Sure.

Riese: She could get into LGBT community and building blah, blah, blah, working on herself or pursue meditation.

Drew: Fun fact. Marja’s initial pitch was also crafted by just typing words into an AI chat generator. People don’t know that. It’s a little industry insider fun fact.

Riese:
That is very insidery.

Analyssa: Drew, when you said the show writes itself, I was like, “Well, and haven’t we heard that before?”

Riese: Anyway, is there anyone left?

Drew: Tom? What’s Tom up to?

Riese: Oh, Tom. I think he’s going to live happily ever after.

Analyssa: Tom is raising his baby with his new-

Riese: I just want everyone to be happy.

Drew: That’s nice. But Tom’s kid is queer, and because of Tom’s experience dating a bisexual woman, he’s able to be a much better father to a queer child.

Analyssa: Can you imagine Tom showing up with even a six-year-old being like, “My kid says he’s queer. Can someone help?” And Alice, Bette, Shane are like, “Yes. We have advice.”

Drew: Incredible.

Analyssa: Exactly. It’ll be beautiful.

Riese: In conclusion, I’m pretty bummed it was canceled even though I hated about half of it.

Analyssa: Even though it made me viscerally angry, I am pretty sad that it’s not coming back. And even though we kind of knew after a couple of months of it not getting announced, I think Riese is right, what you said at the beginning. There was still, “But maybe. Maybe it’ll come back.”

Riese: It’s a good, strong franchise, the social media-

Analyssa: I don’t know. It caused a lot of conversation I feel like, and maybe that’s just we were hearing all the people who were having the conversation.

Riese: In the conversation.

Analyssa: Maybe elsewhere, nobody knows that this show is happening, but I just feel like it was really fun to have something that was rally-aroundable and is eventized. A League of Their Own, I know a ton of people watched, but it wasn’t as like, “When is everyone watching?”

Drew: Because all the episodes were dropped at once, which was the worst decision ever. If A League of Their Own had been weekly, it would have been even more of a phenomenon, and it pisses me off so much that didn’t happen.

Analyssa: Because word of mouth is so important for queer shows especially. We talk to our friends who talk to their friends, and eventually a bar in LA is hosting a watch party, you know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I think that’s such a fun part of the experience and makes you really feel like you’re watching with people. That’s the thing that I think I am sad about this show about queer community, also built queer community when it was airing. It offered an opportunity for that.

Riese: This franchise started this community.

Analyssa: And then continued in the comments. Every recap that Riese posts gets hundreds of comments, because people are just dying to talk about the show they just watched, and watch parties in real bars. That’s really fun. Or the Discord we did that we watched along with people was so fun. So, that is a bummer, and I will miss our friends.

Riese: I think as a franchise for some reason, for better or for worse, it brought us all together, and for some reason it’s like our weird, little community problem that we just have, that we keep returning to, but it for some reason brings everyone together. We all watch it. It’s a big enough cast that everyone can find somebody they’re into. I feel sad for the cast, because I think it was probably really cool to be able to work with each other, you know?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And I think it’s sad for us, for our website traffic. Also, for all of our listeners for To L and Back who enjoyed listening to us talk about the show for better and for worse throughout our time. But maybe we’ll find something else to talk about.

Drew: Maybe we’ll see you in New York.

Riese: Or maybe we’ll see you in New York.

Analyssa: Now that I have my windpipe fixed, I’m ready to podcast about truly anything. Can talk for ages.

Riese: Yeah, we could talk about a different TV show, or we could talk about movies. Drew never talks about movies.

Analyssa: We can never get Drew to talk about movies, so that would be a really good opportunity.

Drew: Fine, fine, I’ll talk about movies. It would be fun in what I was talking about as far as there are so many queer movies that come out each year that deserve deep dives. I would… Monthly movie club, To L and Back monthly Movie Club.

Analyssa: Movie club.

Drew: I would love that.

Riese: That’d be fun.

Drew: Weekly is tough, but once a month we pick a movie that came out in the last three months that’s queer. Be super cool.

Riese: That would be fun. I always wanted to do a podcast that was a deep dive on the history and the culture around different shows that had queer characters in them at the time, and talking about what they mean today. But that’s one of those things that I think about when I think about, I don’t know, writing a TV show or building a treehouse.

Analyssa: Owning a home?

Riese: Or owning something that’s worth more than $50. So, it’s in the fantasy space at this time.

Analyssa: But it’s nice to have a dream column.

Drew: When you sell Autostraddle to Tess, who realizes that the best place to create community is online, then you can-

Riese: Then she’ll fund my dream podcast, my dreamcast.

Drew: I don’t know how Tess became a millionaire, but all of a sudden Tess became a millionaire in my fantasy.

Riese: I think the insurance settlement, because the other man died in the car crash and they thought that he was her husband, and so she got all of his money, because he was rich from modeling for Abercrombie & Fitch. That was just the vibe I got from him, even though he was a cater waiter.

Analyssa: He was just doing that for fun to try to connect with people, you know?

Riese: Yeah, and to deliver his product.

Analyssa: He was trying to make a switch into acting and dealing, so he’s like, “I’m going to connect with real people for a while to emote.”

Drew: Well, this was fun. RIP Tina Kennard.

Riese: RIP L Word: Gen Q. Thanks for all the memories and all the fun times we had.

Lauren Klein: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at ToLandBack, and you can also email us at ToLandBackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram at laurentaylorklein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram at analocaa with two A’s, and on Twitter at analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard Everywhere at Autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, Autostraddle.com.

Analyssa: This is where the song “Graduation” by Vitamin C would play.

Riese: That would be ideal if we could queue that up. Are we going to do Q words?

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: Wow. Well, you just said “queue that up.”

Drew: You did say “queue that up,” so maybe you finally broke. The reason there’s no more Gen Q is because you finally didn’t say “quincemeat,” you said “Q.”

Riese: I was hoping to get to say “quincemeat” one more time in the podcast.

Analyssa: Let’s do Q words.

Drew: Ready?

Riese: Uh-huh.

Drew: 3, 2, 1, quincemeat.

Analyssa: Quincemeat.

Riese: Quincemeat. Everyone said “quincemeat.” You guys.

Analyssa: So true, Riese.

Riese: I love you. Wow, what a great show.

Analyssa: The final quincemeat.

Riese: Carol is so excited.

Analyssa: If you get to write the Christmas special that inevitably ends the whole Gen Q thing, do you think you’ll just title it Quincemeat?

Riese: Yes. I’ll be like, “Christmas with Quincemeat: An L-Word-”

Analyssa: Yeah, if it’s a Christmas special. If it’s a Christmas episode.

Riese: “… Back to LA.”

Analyssa: A quincemeat truffle or whatever. I don’t know, we’re already making shit up.

Riese: They’re going to have it at an Airbnb in Palm Springs maybe, or maybe Joshua Tree. It’s hard to decide. I have so many creative options available to me on this project I haven’t been commissioned to produce, but again, would love to.

Showtime Removes Generation Q From Platform, Thus Deeply Wounding Our Community

Even though we complained about it all the time, we were devastated as a community to learn that iconic television conglomerate Paramount+ With Showtime had cancelled Generation Q after three seasons. This week, a second blow has been dealt to our community: they’ve also removed it from Showtime altogether. Those wishing to view it through their Showtime / Prime Video subscription will be invited to buy the series for $1.99 – $2.99 per episode. Or you could purchase the season on DVD, thus paying $3-$5 an episode.

https://twitter.com/sho_help/status/1643071870160326656

Other queer-inclusive programs missing from Showtime as of last week include Work in Progress, Masters of Sex, The First Lady and Black Monday.

In January, it was announced that the world would be permanently deprived of access to the one-season Showtime production On Becoming a God in Central Florida, which Showtime had initially renewed but then retroactively cancelled due to pandemic filming struggles. Also ditched at that time were American Gigolo, American Rust, Let the Right One In and the Jim Carrey vehicle Kidding. 

Before HBO Max began removing shows from its platform last year, I didn’t know it was a thing that could be done — a network removing a show it created from its streaming catalog. But, apparently, even without the need to renew a license or pay directly for the privilege to stream a specific program created by a third party, there’s still money to be saved by cutting a cancelled show. These cuts save the network from having to pay out residuals to the show’s principal performers, directors, unit production managers, first and second assistant directors and credited writers.

This is a new practice, put into play last year in response to profit-pressure on streaming networks, often inspired by mergers and acquisitions. It took the entire industry by surprise, as relayed to Marketplace by Hollywood journalist Matt Belloni in February: “the creative community is in a state of dumbfoundedness. I think they’re saying, ‘Wait a second, my show can just disappear?’”

It’s also alarming considering the overall rise in queer-focused series getting axed after 1-3 brief seasons. Shows with only a handful of episodes that end without an intentional finale are less appealing to binge watchers, who often wait until a show has finished its entire run to start watching, and aren’t interested in shows that end without an intentional finale. (Generation Q’s cliffhanger for Tess was particularly brutal in this regard.) I wouldn’t be surprised if we see even more short-lived series vanishing from our fave streamers due to lack of popularity. HBO Max, following the merger of Warner Media and Discovery last year, de-platformed the extremely great and very queer high school drama genera+ion, as well as 12 Dates of Christmas, a reality dating show that had a lesbian contestant in its second season. Genera+ion has since been sold to Tubi, thank G-d, but you literally cannot watch 12 Dates of Christmas anywhere, ever. A tragedy!

This is also bad news for the queer actors, writers, and directors who worked on Generation Q, who now can only earn residuals when people buy the show. Reports are mixed regarding how much writers are actually making from residuals, but in the face of strike-worthy pay conditions and shorter seasons, probably every dollar counts for the kinds of young, queer writers who were often brought in to work on Generation Q.

The original L Word remains on Showtime for your personal entertainment.

Every Generation Q Sex Scene, Ranked

After so successfully and accurately ranking every sex scene from The L Word, we of course anticipated one day doing the same for Generation Q, which initially were truly some of the best we’d ever seen, until Season Three when suddenly the sex scene train seemed to have left the station. A blow to the community! Speaking of blows to the community, the show has since been cancelled, which means that the time to rank sex scenes has come for us all.

In our podcast episode for the second season premiere, on the occasion of Sophie and Dani having sex the night before what’d end up being a thwarted wedding, Drew noted, “…the intimacy coordinator of this show is the MVP. The sex scenes on the show, the only time I’ve ever seen sex scenes that are better than the Gen Q sex scenes is Vida. That is the only show I’ve ever seen, or even movie, the sex scenes on Gen Q are so well choreographed, so well done, so specific. I love them.”

So now, as we look back on the best moments of this short-lived series, sex scenes feels like a good place to start. The rankings here are the result of an intense voting process undergone by every Autostraddle TV Team member who’d seen the entire series. Quotes throughout are a mishmash of my own, quotes from the To L and Back podcast, other posts about sex scenes, and from other L Word fans on our team.

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34. He Wants to Fuck Her On His Livestream (301: Last Year)

As a comedy scene, Alice’s romp with Gen Z TikToker Teddy hit all the marks, but as a sex scene it apparently was not our favorite!

33. Finley’s Too Drunk To Bang (102: Less Is More)

Finley and Rebecca: very hot together! Finley having to stop this sex scene almost immediately because her head is spinning and she’s gonna hurl? Not so much!

32. Tess Interrupts Hot Sex To Declare That They Should Fire Finley Or Else They Are Enabling Her (210: Last Call)

It’s mid-day. Shane is going down on Tess, then Tess’s legs are on her shoulders and Shane’s fucking her to some terrible house music and Tess is moaning and everybody’s having a nice time and then, for some absolutely inexplicable reason, Tess interrupts this delightful event with a “not to ruin the mood but, if we keep letting Finley work at the bar we’re just enabling her.”

31. Shane Bangs The Wedding Planner (310: Looking Ahead)

You can always rely on Shane to fuck someone she just met at the wedding, and Kimmy (Jen Tullock) was the lucky girl at Bette and Tina’s.

30. Micah Soothes His Ego With a Hookup (103: Lost Love)

Two hot men, one nice couch, and one very sad Micah!

29. Nat Wakes Alice Up For a Little Midnight Surprise (102: Less is More)

Nice to get it in right before the episode ended, but this sex scene sadly clocked in at a mere 15 seconds.

28. Lena Cheats on Tess With Her New Boss Shane (103: Lost Love)

Lena had her eye on Shane from the jump, and Shane just has eyes. Lena pulls Shane into the backroom and they bang — banging the girlfriend of the manager you just asked to run your lesbian bar is definitely a move. Dawn Denbo would like to salute everybody involved.

27. Shane and The Flight Attendant (101: Let’s Do It Again)

Shane finger-blasting a stranger: hello Season One! Perfect, no notes.

26. Finley’s Not Too Drunk To Bang (102: Less Is More)

Finley, slightly less drunk now, gives sex with Rebecca another whirl. Unfortunately, we only earned about ten seconds of this one.

25. Alice’s Afternoon Delight (207: Light)

Running into your ex at lunch: awkward. Running into your ex at lunch and then fucking in her car with your head popping out of the sunroof: priceless!

24. Cherie Jaffe Would Go Down on Tess in a Theater The Back Room of Dana’s (205: Lobsters, Too)

Tess had some questions for Mommi Cherie about the nature of their improbable four-day relationship, but Cherie squashed dissent by putting her face between Tess’s legs.

23. Alice and Tom’s First Time (206: Love Shack)

At last, this delightful comic duo did the right thing by having sex with each other.

22. Shane and Quiara Having Sex JK Talking About Divorce and Pregnancy (105: Labels)

Shane slips inside Quiara, who gasps, and then Shane goes “I missed you” by which she means “I missed being inside you” and then Shane goes, “I signed those divorce papers” and Quiara’s like “oh sorry about that” and then she’s like “btw I’m pregnant!” Why are Shane’s sex scenes always getting interrupted with admin??

21. Tess and Finley’s Drunken Romp (105: Labels)

Tess is relapsing, and Finley is trashed, and they’re both very sad about recent breakdowns — they’re also both very hot though, so :-/

20. Bette Soothes Pippa’s Rejection With Gigi’s Hot Beef Injection (204: Lake House)

Between a song that goes “you’re not the one, but you’re the one right now” and Bette’s somewhat unenthusiastic facial expression for about one second AND knowing Bette’s just using Gigi as a body even though the body she really wants is Pippa’s….

19. Eleven Seconds of Micah Fucking Maribel With a Strap-on (307: Little Boxes)

Drew: The previous sex scene with Micah and Maribel was very tender, which is very nice. We love tender sex. Love it, love it, love it! But this is the first time we’ve been like, oh cool, we’re watching them fuck.

18. Ivy Gets Shane Out of Her Dreams and Into Her Car (304: Last to Know)

Drew: Shane and Ivy fucking to a fun cover of “Psychokiller” by the Talking Heads… a real intense choice, but I’m into it. It’s hot, I’m going to say it.
Analyssa: So hot.
Drew: I’m going to be brave and say it’s hot. They’re making out, Shane puts her fingers in-
Analyssa: Fingers in the mouth while kissing.
Drew: That’s always going to get me!

17. Maribel and Micah Seal the Deal! (205: Lobsters, Too)

It was a much-anticipated and authentic consummation of a friends-to-lovers pipeline — but as Drew said on the podcast, “I wanted just a little bit more time with this one.”

16. Shane Dreaming of Quiara (104: L.A. Times)

One thing a lot of Generation Q sex scenes lack is great lighting but luckily Shane’s subconscious summoned this glowing gradient for dream sequence sex with Quiara.

15. Micah and Jose Do It In The Pool (102: Less is More)

Listen it wouldn’t be The L Word without a journey into the popular Los Angeles fantasy of fucking in your backyard swimming pool.

14. Reunion Sex for Bette and Tina (302: Los Angeles Traffic)

We’ve seen Bette and Tina reunite over stir-fry and in an elevator and in the backroom of a nightclub run by a tyrannical tank top enthusiast, but this time, it was different: They were both single, both grounded, and both ready to slip back into the place they’d always called home — each other’s bodies.

13. Sophie and Finley Get A Little Bit Closer (206: Love Shack)

After an unclear amount of time spent holding back and taking space, Finley and Sophie finally caved in to the chemistry after lesbian drama at Karaoke night. They whispered apologies and promises, and reader, we were so hopeful!

12. Shane and Tess’s First Time Doesn’t Stay in Vegas (208: Launch Party)

What’s important about this sex scene besides the screensaver of the Las Vegas Strip at Night and the absolutely inexcusable house band music is that it is incredibly hot and also incredibly long (the third-longest sex scene in the entire series). This sex scene has everything: Shane surprising Tess by showing up at her hotel room in Las Vegas, friends-to-lovers sexual tension explosion, several position switches, Shane’s signature swoop. RIP #Shess!

11. Sophie and Dani Have Sex With an Ex (Each Other) (204: Lake House)

Drew: “Sophie did not drive all the way to that lake house not to have sex with Dani. Like maybe in her head at the time, she didn’t know that that’s what she was doing, she thought she was doing something noble. But I think in a year, when Sophie looks back on this moment, she’s going to go, “Yeah, I knew what I was doing.”

10. Sophie and Dani’s Pre-Wedding Romp (201: Late to the Party)

Sophie and Dani weren’t the best at communicating with each other in words, but they were always very reliably absolutely good at having sex with each other.

9. Sophie and Finley’s Sexathon (207: Light)

Sophie and Finley spent an inconsistent amount of time wanting to fuck but not fucking, so now they are going to do the right thing and fuck as much as they possibly fucking can immediately all the time.

8. Gigi and Dani’s First Time (208: Launch Party)

Were I to make a list of all the reasons Dani should knock on Gigi’s door, take her clothes off, and stick her face between Gigi’s thighs, “she’s mad at Bette Porter” would not be anywhere on that list! But we’d waited all of our lives, I think, for this relationship to be consummated. The things Gigi can do with her mouth — the hunger, the biting and laughing and kissing? Very yes.

7. Nat and Gigi Break the Rules, Maybe (107: Lose it All)

Analyssa: Look, I’m not happy about this sex scene eventually leading to the demise of the throuple. Let’s just get that out of the way now. But! The way these two look at each other between kisses. The way everything they do feels urgent without being frantic or sloppy. The fingers in mouths and the hands around necks and the gripped thighs! These are two very hot people who have missed each other for a very long time and would like to have very hot sex about it. I love that for them, and for me! Sorry Alice.

6. Shane Cannot Resist Ivy and Honestly Who Could It’s Kehlani (303: Quiz Show)

Normally we’d not forgive the show for writing a scene so inconsistent with who we know Shane to be or for refusing to let Shane change or even flesh out her impetus to cheat besides that she is “Shane” but also… Kehlani?

Drew: Shane does not seem even a little bit concerned about the fact that she’s in a committed relationship. I feel like in the original, when she would do this, there would be a lot more tortured whatever. She’s like, “I know who I am and who I am is bending Ivy over and fingering her from behind.”
Riese: And God bless it. Bless them.
Analyssa: Bless them.
Riese: I thought this was a fantastic sex scene.
Drew: I enjoyed it.
Riese: Two thumbs up to everyone involved. Congrats to everyone. Sorry, Tess.
Analyssa: Sorry to Tess!

5. Sophie and Dani Get The Show Started With Period Sex (101: Let’s Do it Again)

This was the very first scene of The L Word: Generation Q, and it broadcast a certain type of sex we’d be seeing and who would be having it, and from this alone we felt pretty fucking hopeful about what Generation Q would be giving.

4. Art Museum Sex with Bette and Pippa (207: Light)

Carmen: When I look back on Generation Q, there will be a lot a remember. There will always be the Aloce show! Finley and Sophie riding their bicycle together in season one! But more than anything, there will always be Bette and Pippa! Hot! Black! Having Sex in the Middle of an Art Instillation! You Will Always Be Famous!

3. Bette and Gigi Meet Their Match (202: Lean on Me)

Drew: This was the best sex scene ever.
Riese: Tell us more.
Drew: I can just read my notes on this scene — so basically I just have in all caps, “GIGI LICKING BETTE’S BOOBS.” Then, new note, all caps, “GIGI SAYING, ‘WAIT.’ New note, all caps, “TOP OFF.”
Riese: Top off!
Drew: New note, “Bette biting her tongue.” I say in all caps “OGM” but I think I meant to write “OMG.”
Riese: You were just all mixed up inside?
Drew: Yeah. New note, “I literally screamed in this hotel room,” which is true. I was in the hotel in Ohio and…

2. Finley and Sophie’s First Time (108: Lapse in Judgment)

This is my personal favorite sex scene from the entire L Word franchise. So much happens in this scene — so much character work, even! — which is messy and intense and resonant and complicated and beautiful and even hot. Finley is sober and vulnerable in a way we rarely saw with her. Sophie is being reckless and grasping for an escape route and somebody who she feels like she can be her full self around. This scene captures the joy of having sex for the first time with someone you’re already friends with, someone you’ve already been metaphorically naked with, and now you’re unwrapping a whole new layer of that. The music of this scene reminded me of how adept the original series was at matching songs to sex scenes — so much was lost when Gen Q shifted to its house band. But anyhow: this scene was Generation Q at its best.

1. The Throuple (104: L.A. Times)

Kayla: The best thing about this threesome is that it’s absolutely a bad idea. These three are not in a communicative or stable enough place to really think of how this might impact their dynamics and relationships with each other, but they’re acting on horny impulse, and you know what? That’s just how sex is sometimes. It’s of-the-moment and messy and not the best idea! It’s about to change shit for them! There’s nothing necessarily special about it, but it’s still chaos, and that makes it immersive and fun. This threesome is hot because of its flourishes (the cinematography and the music) but it’s also just hot because it’s real — a real bad idea!

“L Word: Generation Q” Cast Reacts To Show’s Cancellation With Love, Gratitude, Cute Pics and Some Light Shade

Yesterday afternoon we as a community were forced to face a grim reality: Showtime was cancelling The L Word: Generation Q after three seasons. In the ensuing hours, cast members have been posting on their social media accounts to mourn its loss and also sometimes to provide interesting commentary on the show!

Jacqueline Toboni (Finley) wrote that she “love[s] the show and the people it brought into my life” and also thanked watchers for their support, promising to post Behind-the-Scenes photos all day. She has followed through on that promise and it has been pretty adorable! Here’s one of those posts, which I have chosen obviously because the only thing cuter than Finley and Sophie is Jacqueline and Rosanny:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Jacqueline Toboni (@jtoboni)

Leo Sheng (Micah) also posted on his instagram account, adding: “I have been forever changed by Micah Lee, by the fans of this show (returning & new), and by the people I have met along the way…. I wish I could express just how grateful I am for the last 4 years; the opportunities I’ve had, the messages you have sent, the stories you’ve shared. The landscape of trans representation & visibility on screen continues to evolve so rapidly, and I am so eternally honored to have played a part in it.”

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A post shared by Leo Sheng (@ileosheng)

Rosanny Zayas (Sophie) posted a carousel expressing “nothing but love, respect and absolute gratitude.”

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by rosanny zayas (@rosannyzayas)

Arienne Mandi (Dani) posted “love you all” in her carousel, along with another that said “thank you for everything.”

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Arienne Mandi (@arienne_mandi)

Jordan Hull (Angie) has been posting memories in her stories, writing, “I grew up on this show. The cast are my family. Thank you all.” In a grid post, she added, “Endless love for the family I’ve made on this show. I’m the luckiest queer in the world to be raised by a bunch of queer superstars.”

Jamie Clayton (Tess) posted a little tribute to Tess on her stories:

Heidi Sulzman, who joined the cast in Season Three as a delightful love interest for Carrie, also posted that the show was “a hell of a lot of fun while it lasted’:

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A post shared by Heidi Sulzman (@sulzmania)

Stephanie Allynne wrote, “thank you for having me and for introducing me to Nat Bailey who proved life can be full of commitment, freedom, confusion, disappointment, risk, new experiences, and the beauty of things coming full circle. it was a pleasure to play a character who used a humidifier, was committed to her nightly hand cream routine, wore Theory and loved sex, orgies, and polyamory.”

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A post shared by Stephanie Allynne (@stephanieallynne)

Former Autostraddle calender model Carmen LoBue also published a few tributes to the show on their instagram feed, writing, “I love these humans so much. It’s a privilege and an honor to share space with y’all!”

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by C A R M E N L O B U E (@carmenlobue)

And finally, Kate Moennig (Shane) wins the Soft Shade award for this one!! We love to see it!!

Showtime Cancels “L Word: Generation Q,” Might Pursue New Reboot Set in NYC, What

Friends, the time we feared would come has indeed come: despite the fact that Dani and Gigi have yet to reunite and pledge their eternal love for each other, The L Word: Generation Q has been axed by iconic television conglomerate Paramount + with Showtime after three seasons of love, laughter, blazers, haircuts, confusing character choices and memories.

However — Ilene Chaiken possibly already has something new up her billowy sleeves! Deadline reporter Nellie Andreeva reports that “the franchise may continue on the network — The L Word: New York (working title), a reboot of the groundbreaking original series, is in development with the 2004 series’ creator Ilene Chaiken attached, I hear.”

A show being “in development” can mean literally anything at all — like it could just be a draft on a laptop — so this news is far from a guarantee that we are mere months or even years away from visiting Alice’s Park Slope loft or witnessing the re-opening of Shane for Wax’s Chelsea and Williamsburg locations. (Alternately, perhaps the reboot intends to time travel back to 2010, when Bette and Tina were moving to the city?) But it’s something, I guess? It is a small thing, a whisper of hope, like the possibility of an engagement ring stuck in a bowl of mashed potatoes. It is also, I must point out, potentially another opportunity for the team behind this show to do the right thing and hire me personally to write for it!

Apparently the programming slate over there has been re-evaluated since Chris McCarthy began heading up Showtime following the exit of former CEO David Nevins in October. When announcing the Yellowjackets third season renewal in December, McCarthy cited The L Word as one of the “unconventional cultural takes” categorized as a strength of Showtime’s present line-up. But a month later, The L Word‘s place in that paragraph was usurped by Fellow Travelers, a show I’ve never heard of. Furthermore, not a single Showtime series has been renewed since it was announced in January that the premium cable network would be integrated into Paramount+ across streaming and linear this year.

It’s no secret that fans and recappers (me) of the original series were often underwhelmed by Generation Q, with ratings slowly declining over its three-season run. However, it still held a special place in our hearts and there was still a lot to love about it, including a really stellar cast. Shortly after Season Three’s conclusion, a fan campaign on social media begged Showtime to start over with a new reboot.

Shane weighed in on social media about the cancellation last night:

Between this and last week’s cancellation of A League of Their Own, we are really hurting as a community fo queer television stories and also as a website for the traffic we earn when people are excited about television shows centered on lesbian+ communities.

I will personally be praying hard for this new reboot to actually happen!!

Excuse me while I go scream into a pillow!!!!!!

Our Charts: Three Generation Q Infographics

When you spend a lot of time writing about the same television program and also find “data collection” to be soothing to your various mental problems, you might find yourself where I found myself last week and where we all find ourselves now, together; looking at three important infographics I made for you about The  L Word: Generation Q.

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1. Generation Q Sex Scenes

One of the most exciting elements of The L Word: Generation Q were its incredibly hot sex scenes, most of which featured at least one actual queer actor — a big change from the original series! Despite praise for its realistic and abundant sex scenes in its first two seasons, season three turned out remarkably chaste, a situation which we have yet to fully grapple with as a community. However, some things never change: Shane had the #1 most sex scenes in the original series and in Generation Q. Thank you Kate Moennig for your service!

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2. The Chart

Alice’s “chart” was intrinsic to the original series, as it provided a groundbreaking visual representation of what it’s like to live, laugh and love in an unavoidably insular queer community. Anyhow I made this chart while on cough syrup on my third day of having the coronavirus but then I updated it to reflect the entire season’s events. And let me tell you that Sophie hooking up with Pippa really required a lot of maneuvering I was not prepared for!

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3. Everybody’s Name Sounds the Same To Me

It is just confusing to me how all the new names ended up sounding the same? Like I’m writing a book and my agent told me I couldn’t have a character named “Allison” because I already had one named “Abigail” and they are out here making everyone’s name end with long “e” sound!

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 310: We Just Wanted To Have Fun With Our Friends

Well, well, well! If this season was all episodes featuring a big event, this sure is a fitting finale. This week, on the final episode of the season (and potentially, sadly, the series, as we haven’t heard any renewal news yet), Bette and Tina wed, finally strolling off together, hand in hand, into the sunset and (presumably) their long-awaited happily ever after.

So much of what happens at the wedding is delightful: Bette and Tina are locked in the walk-in fridge, Alice is responsible for booze and CALLING TASHA (to save the brides of course), Sophie and Pippa share a beautiful flirtatious afternoon. G Flip and Chrishell arrive, and Roxy is back to play and Dani is on drugs! So it’s also a big bummer that Tess, Micah and Maribel specifically end the season in truly dour places, and I feel at this point in the season it’s okay for me to be honest about that in this post! From the low of a relapse storyline to the highs of every single second Tasha was onscreen, this feels a fitting (if frustrating) send-off to the season we loved to discuss so much.

Please let us know in the comments if you ALSO spotted Ilene Chaiken in the crowd at the wedding, or if you know why G Flip and Chrishell were guests. We love you, we’ll miss you, we hope you enjoyed the ride! (And if you did, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!)

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SHOW NOTES

+ The reason Riese called Drew the poppers queen was this essay
+ We make a lot of references to this interview with Gen Q showrunner Marja-Lewis Ryan in this ep
+ Carmen on her love of Pippa Pascal, who is also discussed in this roundtable On Blackness and the L Word
+ Both Daniel Sea interviews again, for good measure
+ Sort Of and P Valley both made the TV team’s top shows of 2022
+ I can’t remember why I’m linking this but Drew and Shelli are covering Sundance!
+ The G Flip & Chrishell explainer, thank you Anya!
+ The podcast You’re Wrong About, which did a series on Princess Diana
+ Arienne Mandi’s holiday movie (also starring Melora Hardin!), Love, Classified
+ One more plug: if you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to Autostraddle!!!
+ The time we met the cast of The L Word: Gen Q, three long and wild years ago, kicking off truly one of the most messy months of all of our young lives:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5td8XbHuNr/

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Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Drew: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition

Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition. Well?

Drew: Here we are. The finale.

Riese: The finale. We’re recording so late because it took a long time to get screeners.

Analyssa: I was going to say “the long awaited finale” in more than one way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I do think it’s worth noting this is the least amount of time between the three of us watching an episode collectively all together and then recording the podcast.

Riese: Yeah. We just watched it an hour ago.

Analyssa: I watched it just before I got in my car to come over here.

Riese: Right. I watched it just before you guys got here because we didn’t get it until-

Analyssa: And usually we have a few days before we end up being able to schedule to record the podcast so…

Riese: Yeah. Usually I like to have the recap mostly done before we record.

Drew: Yeah. I do think that maybe they kept it from us because they knew that if I couldn’t rant about it on a mic, I would explode out in the world.

Analyssa: They were trying to contain Drew.

Drew: Maybe.

Analyssa: Specifically.

Drew: Potentially.

Riese: I liked it.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I fall, as always, somewhere in the middle.

Drew: There are things about it that I think are great.

Riese: I’m sure by the end of this, Drew will have convinced me to hate it.

Drew: No, I don’t want to do that. Should I just leave? Should I just let you guys… I feel like you got it. I feel like… Also, I want to say before we start that I’m going into this with the knowledge that this could be the last episode of the series, and also with the knowledge that if the showrunner of The L Word: Generation Q was familiar with how television worked, she would know that this very well could be the last episode.

And so with that in mind, I think any TV show you should think about this with a season finale, unless there’s certain shows where we know they’re not going to get canceled and they’re hits and they’re whatever. But your queer show that doesn’t do a lot of numbers that took forever to get renewed this last time, this very well could be the series finale, not just of The L Word: Generation Q, but of The L Word franchise, which means a lot to a lot of people.

And I honestly think that they did do that. I honestly think that they went into this episode making sure to give a happy sendoff to the people who they see as people. And with that, we can start.

Riese: There is, though, I think always the possibility that even if the show is canceled, that I will be hired to write an L Word Christmas special.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: And we should be holding out hope for that.

Riese: And obviously, I would have you help me.

Drew: Thank you. Frankly, you could do that just like an AO3 situation.

Analyssa: The next iteration of this podcast is just us workshopping Riese’s Christmas movie.

Riese: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much. But also, the thing is this long wait between to find out renewals is new. That’s a new thing in the age of streaming. When the original series aired, you’d find out mid-season if next season. So it’s such a weird new thing that showrunners are doing where they don’t know when they finish this season, if it’s going to be the season finale. Like that, it never was like that before. So it’s very weird. It’s a weird position for everybody to be in, I guess. Especially us.

Drew: Yeah. Really. This episode is Gen Q 3.10: “Looking Ahead”. It’s directed by Leisha Hailey, and it is written by Marja as well as Scout Comm, and Courtney Edwards. Scout Comm is the script coordinator this season so I’m really glad that they got an episode credit. That’s huge. Courtney Edwards, I couldn’t find that much information about unless, I don’t know. There’s another name that’s similar and I’m trying to figure out if it’s that person or not. But either-

Riese: DM us, Courtney. There’s no-

Drew: Yeah. I would love-

Riese: What’s your story?

Drew: Yeah, who are you?

Riese: So tell us about you. What’s your favorite color? What do you do for fun?

Analyssa: It’s possible that both of them are support staff and that’s writing support staff. And that’s why there’s not a ton of stuff on the internet.

Drew: Yeah. That seems right. And so I’m really happy, regardless of anything else about this episode, getting that first credit’s huge, so very happy.

Analyssa: Especially as a finale episode, that’s a pretty big thing to put on your resume. You don’t really use resumes in the general or in a traditional sense, but to have in your pocket as something that you did is really cool.

Riese: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Usually it’s just the showrunner. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: But we have a lot to talk about. So let’s dive in. Well, we begin with Alice in wedding planner mode, and she’s in wedding planner mode because the wedding planner is-

Riese: Banging Shane. In the bathroom. She’s gay, but she was in Severance, which was one of my favorite shows of 2022, and I highly recommend it. Believe it or not, it’s actually a little bit better than The L Word. But they actually have full intercourse-

Analyssa: Full sex?

Riese: Nice. Thank you. Finally got that in.

Drew: We knew it’d be Shane to bring us back.

Analyssa: So yeah. Alice is planning the wedding because Shane is fucking the wedding planner. And then Tina and Bette are getting ready in a bridal suite.

Riese: I cannot believe they’re doing their own makeup.

Analyssa: The way that this wedding so rapidly oscillates between being explained as a very luxurious event, but then it’s also a very-

Riese: Thrown together in a week

Analyssa: …shoestring. Yeah.

Riese: But there’s like no chance on earth they’d be doing their own makeup.

Drew: No.

Riese: Like zero. I was also like, did they do their own hair? Thank God they didn’t do their own hair. But I was like, wow. Wow. Intense. I mean, it’s that hoarder. She has infinite money. She went to Toronto without a job or a passport just to sit on the sidelines of Murdoch Mysteries, and that is obviously true love, as we see. Anyway, Tina might be going through menopause, might not.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That’s a cliffhanger right there.

Analyssa: That’s one thing that we’ll never get an answer to if this doesn’t get us next season.

Riese: Right. We’ll never know.

Drew: Alice has a fun little dress on that’s both black and white polka dot and rainbow. It’s definitely a choice.

Riese: I liked it. I thought it was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And Alice needs to get alcohol, which she has forgotten to do.

Riese: You know what I would do in this situation? Just like I’m just spitballing here. I would like, have you ever been to BevMo!?

Analyssa: Right, right, right.

Riese: Ralph’s, Costco, the corner store.

Analyssa: Costco would be great. They’d have a ton of stuff to get.

Riese: Yeah, Costco. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of options that I would go to-

Drew: Before calling-

Riese: …before calling my ex. Yeah. Although also, I don’t even, in that case, I might call Finley and stuff.

Analyssa: But I was going to say, the other thing I probably would’ve done is called the other friend who works at the same location and at least have Finley run in between the two of them.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Alice is immediately, you have to call Tess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, my bigger problem is that the wedding planner says to Shane, “I’m a Capricorn moon, so I love to serve.” which that just didn’t… I mean, if someone, I’m not an expert with astrology, so if someone wants to explain why that’s the case…

Riese: Are you a Capricorn moon?

Drew: I am.

Riese: Oh, I have-

Analyssa: You’re a Capricorn moon, also?

Drew: I’m Capricorn sun. No. Oh, sorry, not moon. I’m Capricorn Mars. Did she say Mars or did she say moon?

Analyssa: No, she said moon, by the way.

Drew: Okay. Either way, does that explain… Why… It should be Mars, right? That’s sex and also…

Analyssa: Right. But she’s making a joke about work too.

Drew: Yeah, I guess okay.

Riese: Don’t look at me for astrology.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: I looked at you. I turned to you.

Drew: Tell us if that checks out. I guess like serve maybe has just different connotations to me. If she was like, I love to work hard, I’d be like, okay. But there was just-

Analyssa: Get the job done.

Drew: Yeah. But something about serve felt, I was like, I don’t know. It didn’t work for me astrologically, but

Riese: Well, take it up with the stars.

Drew: I’m a Taurus moon. For the record.

Riese: Take it up with the stars!

Drew: Anyways, so then we go to Tess who walks into the bar with a very obvious hangover.

Analyssa: And look, for now, what I’ll say about this storyline is I was just glad to not see that damn purple coffee mug. The fact that they did not bring this coffee mug back out was one small mercy of this storyline for me.

Drew: Yeah. Finley comes in, there’s some back and forth about Finley has a new place now and how gross it is, apparently. And she’s like, you should come see my new place. And then Tess has this moment of like, oh shit, I’m going to have to get new furniture when I get my own new place.

Riese: She’s not. Shane will leave the furniture.

Drew: And Finley’s like, “Fuck Shane, I’m on your side.”

Riese: Right. Sure. Okay.

Drew: Back to the wedding.

Riese: Roxy comes back. That’s exciting. I didn’t know that was going to happen.

Analyssa: That was fun.

Riese: And we loved her.

Analyssa: I was really excited to see her. We learned that Dani ghosted Dre after they said that they wanted to get more serious,

Riese: But also Dre left Dani and was like, I’m cutting out of this.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: So who’s the ghost?

Analyssa: Once again?

Drew: No. We obviously have to make it not Dani’s fault. It obviously needs to be Dre’s fault. Whatever. It’s like, it’s fine. It’s so funny because I was so excited about Roxy when Roxy was introduced, and her and Dani are so fun together. And then to end the last episode with Dani and Dre, how they were also very clearly Dani had feelings for Dre. So to then be like, Dani ghosted, you’re like, what? Okay. Like what? Okay. And Sophie’s worried that Alice is mad at her.

Riese: Everyone’s outfits are great, I just want to say.

Analyssa: Yes, everyone-

Riese: Especially Dani looks spectacular.

Analyssa: Everyone looks amazing in this episode. They knocked it out of the park. Sophie’s also set a really big goal for the wedding to get laid.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: That’s a big thing that she’s talking about.

Riese: Yeah. Good for her.

Drew: Sophie, the only character in this episode that I feel really good about.

Riese: All right.

Drew: Roxy gives Dani molly and Dani’s like, “Molly doesn’t work on me.” It seems weird to me that this season has had so many repeat storylines. Like, yes-

Riese: They did molly earlier?

Drew: No, but they had, they just this season had so many different drug things. You have Micah at an event where Micah’s high, and now you have Dani high. And not that people don’t do drugs. I get it. But it is just like-

Riese: Drew. Queen poppers.

Drew: I do. I’m really the only person here who does drugs, but it’s just to make it a storyline.

Riese: I did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: But now I’m old.

Analyssa: I also did drugs when I was your age.

Drew: We’re the same age. But yeah. And then two episodes ending with an almost death and just these things where I’m-

Analyssa: Even Dani being torn between two people at the end of this episode. I was like, wait, deja vu. It’s not the same, but her being involved in a…

Drew: Yeah. Anyways, it’s fine.

Riese: I know there’s a lot of questionable character choices in it, but I don’t know, with the exception of the Micah and Maribel stuff that I’m sure we’ll get into and the Tess stuff, it had a good energy to me. You know what I mean? It was funny. It was fast paced. It felt like the vibes were good. I just had fun watching it, and I felt emotionally invested in a lot of things. Then there were those two things that are profoundly upsetting.

Drew: But I think part of the problem for me is that there were things about this episode that I really liked and we’re going to get into them, and it felt-

Riese: Mean?

Drew: It felt mean. It felt just very apparent. And I don’t want to do a summary of the episode when we’re two scenes in, but it just feels so blatant. Even though season six ended with Max being humiliated and it was terrible, at least Jenny had been killed and everyone was going to be arrested, and it was terrible.

Riese: But that’s terrible.

Drew: No, it’s awful. Jenny’s death is one of my least favorite. I was just talking to someone about this, how much Jenny’s death is one of the worst deaths. I hate it. It bothers me more than Dana’s death. But I’m just saying that universally, it was terrible, whereas-

Analyssa: Everything was going wrong.

Drew: Whereas here, it’s literally like the trans actors, the disabled actor, and everyone else pretty much gets a really good wrapped up happy ending.

Riese: Yeah, that’s true.

Drew: And that feels brutal. Anyways, let’s carry on because there is a lot of fun stuff.

Riese: Bette and Tina, they go to the walk-in, and it’s a secret, special kind of walk-in, I guess with a weird door situation unlike a door that I’ve ever witnessed, and I’ve spent a lot of time sitting in walk-ins, because that’s what you do with the Olive Garden when you’re hot and you want to eat desserts out of the box.

Drew: We do learn that Bette and Tina were previously married at the courthouse.

Analyssa: Thank God. I was like-

Riese: The relief.

Analyssa: I watched that and I said, I’m so happy for Riese.

Riese: Thank you so much.

Analyssa: It truly is like they heard you.

Riese: It is. Yeah. I appreciated that. And it was very calming to me.

Drew: There are actually quite a few things that throughout this episode that could have been said three episodes of ago.

Riese: Yeah. There was quite a few things. Yeah. I mean, there’s one really big one, but there’s a lot. But yeah, there’s a lot of things where I was like, finally, this is being coming up. This is coming around. But I’m like, why did they wait until now? That’s kind of weird.

Analyssa: Again, once again, referencing the letterboxed review of someone I don’t know, of just needing 72 hours in edit bay. I was like, I would’ve put this scene three episodes ago. And then me, Analyssa, I never would’ve been mad about this plot line. Would’ve been so much easier.

Riese: Yeah. I just wonder what happened. The last, when they were working on a script, oh, we never really explained this. Or was it on set? Someone was like, we really should address this.

Drew: I think Scout Comm and Courtney Edwards are in that room. They’ve been sitting in that room as script coordinator saying-

Riese: And they’re like, someone mentioned they were married before.

Analyssa: A script coordinator would be like, I have my eyes on the fact that we’ve never brought up this, this, and this. Let’s get those things handled.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Yeah. A script coordinator is very detailed. They track every change to a script. They’re continuity people. They’re in charge of that kind of thing.

Riese: Oh, wow. They probably came with some notes.

Drew: So I’m going to give credit to those first time television writers and say that, thank you for making us feel slightly less crazy.

Analyssa: There’s also some fun fan service for… It might not hit for everybody, but I did. I loved the attempt of Bette and Tina being like, I want our friends to see us get married. And what they really mean is the L Word audience.

Riese: They’ve seen us through all this.

Analyssa: They’ve seen us through all this. They want this for us. It’ll be so fun to celebrate with them. I thought that was sweet.

Drew: Yeah. I don’t know. That interview that recently came out with Marja-Lewis Ryan, we did learn about one of her strengths isn’t arcs, that she’s still learning how to get arcs down, so I do think it makes sense to be like, oh yeah, a lot of stuff was explained this episode, and if you had an understanding of arcs, maybe you would put that in throughout the season. But if that’s one of your flaws, and we all have flaws, we’re not perfect.

Riese: Like, I don’t want to be CEO of my company.

Analyssa: For one recent anecdotal example. Sure.

Riese: Yeah. I just want to write things. Maybe run a TikTok.

Drew: I think maybe Marja just wants to act again and Marja says she should go back.

Riese: Maybe we’ve all just found ourselves in positions we didn’t expect to be in.

Drew: I don’t want to be hosting an L Word podcast. I’ll tell you that.

Riese: Drew. Drew, how dare you!

Drew: We can cut that. No, we probably won’t. But no, I love it. But yes, it is very much, so much of what this episode does well is giving fans of the original series a real sort of happy ending closure; lesbians getting married for Bette and Tina and also-

Riese: Well, Tina’s bisexual.

Drew: I would like to apologize to-

Riese: The bisexual community.

Drew: …the 50 plus year old cis white-

Analyssa: Drew, look at me in my eyeballs.

Drew: …bisexual community for the offense that I’ve done. But yeah, I mean also Alice in talk, which we’ll get to, I think those two things are really the point of this episode. Yeah. It was. And I’m happy for you if that’s something you’re invested in.

Riese: The forced smile Drew just gave us. It was really incredible.

Analyssa: Anyway, they’re locked in the fridge as we know.

Drew: They’re locked in the fridge.

Analyssa: As we all knew what happened as soon as they walked into the fridge.

Riese: Usually, the handle. It’s like this big. It’s bigger. It’s like the size of a two year old, and it’s like you pull it’s, and also doesn’t, whatever. It’s fine.

Drew: It doesn’t make any sense. I actually didn’t think it was going to happen because it didn’t make sense to me, but that’s fine. Did we do a locked in a thing so far this season?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: This season? No. Okay. But there was the elevator thing. Yeah, sure. Of course. I mean, I do love when people get locked in a place.

Drew: I also love that.

Analyssa: Oh, we did Locked Out, Tess and Shane.

Drew: We did do locked out.

Riese: We locked out. Locked out. That’s an arc. I think that’s an arc is. Yeah. You go home locked out to locked in, and then you’ve written a story.

Drew: And that’s the difference between-

Riese: In 60 minutes.

Drew: Between Shane and between Bette and Tina is Bette and Tina locked in.

Analyssa: They’re locked in.

Drew: Shane, locked out.

Riese: Locked out. Locked out. Locked out on a ledge.

Analyssa: For one brief second, there’s like a throwaway line about how now there’s alcohol. Alice is talking to some person who has brought the alcohol. And for one brief moment, I was like, they’re not even going to bring Tess. That’s amazing.

Riese: Right. I thought so too.

Analyssa: That appealed so good to me.

Riese: Yeah. Why would Tess come?

Drew: I noted that-

Riese: Again, BevMo!

Analyssa: BevMo exists.

Drew: That extra or whatever the right word is for the person who’s like, didn’t say anything because obviously that person, you talk, you talk, it’s a thing.

Analyssa: He got to get paid.

Drew: And I was paid and I was like, oh, I wish that they’d given that person some lines so that they could have gotten health insurance, but that person doesn’t. So it’s kind of awkward. And then Sophie goes up to Alice and they have this nice little moment where they reconcile. And Alice is like, you did a great job. You’re getting promoted. I just want to be mad at you. And Sophie’s like, oh my God.

Analyssa: This was, I feel showed so much of what Riese was talking about. The episode does well, they’re, the two of them have a real sparkle. It was just so delightful.

Riese: Another part of the episode that was incredibly delightful is that Pippa shows up.

Drew: This is the best thing about this episode.

Riese: And I was like, holy shit. Because I was like, she’s not like, that’s it. I watched Vanessa Estelle Williams did a Insta Story or something on set, but she didn’t say what she was on the set of. And I watched it 20 times trying to figure out, do I see any people who look vaguely gay in the background? It looked like they were outside or something, and it could not have been this, honestly, but I was like, it must have been something else. And maybe it wasn’t.

Drew: Yeah. Sophie is talking to herself about wanting to get laid, and then Pippa is like, I heard you-

Riese: Looking amazing.

Drew: And they have such good chemistry. They’re both so hot.

Riese: So hot.

Drew: It’s so good. And also, I’m just like, okay, Autostraddle editor-in-chief, Carmen.

Riese: I was just about to say this!

Drew: I know. I was so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, when the Bette and Pippa relationship was happening that one of the things that a lot of people of color on the Autostraddle writing staff, but Carmen especially, was like, this is so cool to see two black women who are just in a relationship having feelings for each other. I was just so, and Sophie being one of Carmen’s favorite characters maybe ever. I was just like,

Riese: Yes. Yeah, I know.

Drew: I texted Carmen and was like,

Riese: Oh, you did? Because I almost texted her! I was gonna say like, if you could find an hour for yourself this weekend, you should watch this.

Drew: Yeah. I said, there are so many problems with the finale of the outward generation queue, but there are two things that feel specifically for you, and I just want you to promise me you’re going to turn off your critic hat and turn off your care about other people hat and really enjoy those things. Really enjoy those because it’ll bring me joy.

Riese: Yeah, I know. My absolute first thought was, I am so happy for Carmen.

Analyssa: Me too. But then unfortunately, Finley is here to interrupt what could have been smoldering sexual chemistry for a while.

Riese: A I know. And I have been the biggest Sinley shipper ever, and it would take a lot to get me to root for Sophie to be with someone else, and this episode did accomplish that for me.

Drew: Yeah, it does. Yeah. It really does.

Riese: It does. Yeah.

Analyssa: I still, in my heart of hearts was like, okay, I understand. I deeply want Sinley to be together, but what if Sophie dated Pippa just for this one day and they got to kiss a little bit? Wouldn’t that be great?

Drew: I ship them forever now. I become the-

Riese: They’re much better for each other.

Drew: The audience who’s like, I want the queers to get married. I’m like, no, I get it.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Marry them.

Riese: So yeah, Finley wants her toaster back. I think that’s the last time Sophie and Finley talked to each other.

Drew: So then we go to Micah and Maribel and one of those Amazon robots has delivered a canister of sperm. That’s how it works. You just order off the internet and it arrives at your house.

Riese: Yeah, you can. There’s a lot of paperwork, I think. I didn’t do this route because it’s not the route that you do if you have anything complicated about your pregnancy. You don’t do an at-home insemination. It’s more likely done if you’re younger, whatever. Everything. It’s not the best. I don’t think it’s the best option for them.

Analyssa: It’s more likely done if you’re a Bette and Tina in season one of the original.

Riese: Yes. They would be a great example of that. And I mean that is how it… I haven’t gotten it that way, but I think that is how it comes in what it looks like. I don’t really understand the blue thing, when you get it done in doctor’s office. I don’t think it was blue, but I don’t know. It’s kind of disassociating because it’s weird. I don’t like having a body. At first I was like $700? But if you’re doing it at home, the sperm is a little bit cheaper. But that is kind of on the cheap side.

Analyssa: The way that I felt joy when Pippa and Sophie started making eyes at each other for Carmen. I felt deep despair for my friends, Riese and Drew, for this story. As soon as this started happening, I was like, huh.

Drew: I wish I could go back in time though and tell the Drew of two hours ago that this moment of this storyline is-

Riese: Not the worst.

Drew: The best we’re going to get.

Riese: Right. I would like to say that for a show that began with Tina saying, “I’m ovulating” back in 2004, I was a little bit confused about whether or not Maribel was ovulating. It just didn’t come up. They were, I was like, why are you taking the sperm out right now? It happened to, why did it just come on the day? This is her ovulation day. Is she monitoring any of that? Did she, whatever.

Drew: Yeah. She did say the clock is ticking at one point, but

Riese: She was talking about the sperm that they had for some reason already taken out. Because at first, I was like, “Oh, the clock is ticking. You know you only have a few hours or whatever.” And then, the other thing about it that annoyed me was this will be a baby in nine months. What? No. It won’t. Only if it works!

Drew: It’s a little bit of an anti-abortion sort of fetus, not even fetus, but sperm is a person?

Riese: Yeah. Every time someone with sperm and someone who makes eggs have sex, do they say this is going to be a baby in nine months? Because that’s the same thing as what they’re doing right now.

Drew: Yeah. It’s fucking weird.

Riese: It’s really weird. It’s fine.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: It’s fine. It’s weird. It’s fine. And also it’s weird because this is the only other thing that isn’t part of the wedding. So it’s like it’s separate in so many ways. Tess is like what? She’s about to go perform at a Vegas lounge, the way that she rolls up in her glitter dress…

Analyssa: This dress…

Riese: … with her smoldering facial expressions?

Analyssa: This dress, the fact that she was at her work in athleisure, basically hungover, and then now is full face of makeup. I respect that “I’m going to see my ex” energy. I know that we don’t deal in the temporal realities in The L Word, but I was just like, this is crazy. And this was the plot line that I was then feeling despair for myself obviously. Yeah.

Riese: Shane and Tess eye each other.

Drew: Yeah. Shane and Tess are like very flirty.

Analyssa: Also, sorry, Tess is now working the event basically. They didn’t just call her and say, can we get a bunch of alcohol from Dana’s? Which first of all, if I’d just been dumped by one of the bridal party, I’d be like, “Go fuck yourself,” number one. But number two now, she’s like serving up drinks kind of. It’s bizarre.

Drew: It makes no sense. Yeah. There are other bartenders who work, we’ve seen whenever they have parties.

Riese: It’s also, but there was this weird power dynamic with Shane owns the bar and Tess works for her. But that was never really addressed. And this is the first time, and it’s like, “Well, this is kind of why that’s a little bit hard.” Yeah.

Drew: Alice was like, “It’s showtime,” which I was like, “Yes.” And when Alice and Shane leave, then Tess leaves to go to some random guy’s car to do cocaine.

Riese: I mean, that is a realistic depiction of what you do to get cocaine.

Analyssa: Literally, I was like, I mean, okay. I cannot argue with the fact that I’ve been there, so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. For legal reasons. That’s a joke.

Riese: Yeah. Me too. Well, no, it doesn’t matter. No one cares when I did coke.

Drew: Yeah. He is like, “Have you ever done this before?” Which is a weird thing to ask someone who very aggressively is, “Do you have cocaine?”

Riese: I know.

Analyssa: Tess is giving off vibes of not only have I done this before, but since before you were alive, my man.

Drew: Today.

Riese: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Analyssa: But sure.

Riese: And this guy, it was like he, I don’t know, he was like an extra from a Diet Coke commercial or something.

Drew: Yeah. I have no idea who this man is.

Riese: I have no idea who this man is. Let’s call him Brett.

Analyssa: Okay. Sure. And later, when they are doing these big wedding guest crowd reveal, he’s the only man at the event.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Brett is the only man in the crowd whatsoever. He was the only man on set that day, I think. I think that there’s no…

Drew: Which really goes to show what Tina and Bette’s community is. It’s just so funny. It’s just the AfterEllen editorial staff.

Riese: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: I didn’t note any other music cues this episode. But just for old times sake, Tess putting a key of cocaine up her nose and the music going, “Did you think that you’re really in control?” I mean, that’s got to be the season best I think.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is this when we get all the flashes? No. That’s later.

Riese: She does way too much cocaine.

Analyssa: It’s so much cocaine. Whatever.

Riese: So Bette and Tina are still in the walk-in.

Analyssa: Bette makes a little cheese plate, a little charcuterie board. It was so cute.

Riese: It was adorable. Yeah. It was like, wow, she can cook, she can clean, she can get locked in the freezer.

Drew: Tina’s mad that Bette is being so calm. Which this also, in this scene, we get to it, but I liked this as a storyline. I liked the idea of actually growth isn’t never being angry. It’s just knowing when to be angry and when to direct the anger. And I do appreciate…

Analyssa: And not to lash out at the people who are trying to help you also. Also just from a comedy standpoint, this is very funny. This is a great representation of when your partner is endlessly positive, and you’re like, “Please shut the up, and just let me be mad and you be mad with me also.”

Riese: Or you’re like, “I get that you just downloaded a meditation app and your whole life has changed. But I’m still here. I didn’t have time to do the meditation app. So let’s get back on the same page.”

Drew: Tina does have a meditation app though also. We saw.

Riese: Oh, that’s true. Tina does have the meditation app.

Drew: Anyways, Shane and Alice show up and break the other handle. And then Alice is going to call the fire department. And I’m like…

Riese: Is this show sponsored by 911?

Analyssa: Truly, the number of times this has been said, they are just itching to call, any little thing.

Riese: Like… break the window?

Drew: Yeah. Truly.

Riese: With the hammer. Why were they like… Whatever.

Drew: Whatever, it’s so wild.

Analyssa: Second only to Fox’s 911 is this show mentioning 911 per episode.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. But then Tina’s like, “I like all of you. Let all of those parts out,” and then Bette screams at Alice to call Tasha because there’s a whole thing where the fire department is delayed. There are lots of fire stations.

Riese: But also, why would they need the fire department to open a door?

Drew: Yeah. Also, they should just be like, “Call Tasha because she’s strong and hot.” I don’t know.

Riese: She’s hot. Everyone would like to see her again.

Drew: There’s no guest at this wedding who- at this gay wedding…

Riese: Gay wedding.

Drew: …that, I’m sorry, at this lesbian and bisexual joint wedding-

Riese: Get Ilene Chaikin in her wedges.

Drew: There isn’t one queer person who can roll up those sleeves and…

Analyssa: And there’s a crowbar somewhere on the guy’s property.

Drew: Come on.

Riese: I mean, honestly, Finley I’m sure would be happy to try. Finley would love to save the day. Finley didn’t really do anything in this episode!

Drew: Yeah. This was a real anti-Finley.

Riese: Yeah. They gave Finley so much in episode eight and then were like, “Bye.”

Analyssa: That’s enough.

Riese: “That’s enough from you. Thank you so much for being in the show.” And yeah, they yell at Alice to call Tasha. Thank God.

Analyssa: We were all thinking it.

Riese: Yeah. And then she said to Shane, “Maybe you should call her from your number.”

Drew: Yeah. Dani’s on Molly.

Riese: I thought it was so cute.

Drew: Smelling roses and then on the phone telling Dre that she loves them.

Analyssa: I want to say Dani on Molly acting and performance in this is so good.

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: It’s so funny. She nails it. I was like, “Yeah. I love it.” It’s a perfect TV representation of being on a specific drug, which is so rare.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. If they had framed it where Dre had been the one to be like… I know that when Dre left, Dre was like, “I have to leave because whatever.” I get they kind of did that. But if they had made it clearer that Dre had walked away from the relationship, it all would’ve worked so much better than throughout this, I’m feeling like, no, Dani don’t kiss Roxy. Whereas if it was like you just got rejected by Dre, I’d be like, kiss Roxy. Kiss Roxy. And my entire feeling about Dani’s Molly antics, I would’ve been having such a better time.

Riese: You know why that’s true? Because that is how I read the last episode, and I was having a great time.

Drew: Yeah. I guess it just wasn’t really done well, last episode. I wasn’t sold on it. It was like, wait, what? Why would you walk away?

Riese: It didn’t make sense to me. It didn’t make sense — But I was like, I guess this is what the show has decided is that was Dre… It didn’t make sense, because it’s like why would you need some… they could certainly wait for Dani to come around. And like we talked about.

Drew: Right. And also, instead of Dani calling Dre and saying, “I love you,” Dani could have been, “I invited Dre to the wedding, but I don’t think they’re going to come.” It could have been something like that. Instead we start…

Analyssa: She’s playing too…

Drew: … Dani’s highness being like, “I love you.” And I’m like, yay. Dre’s going to show up, and they’re going to kiss, and it’s going to be fun! And it’s like, so instead, I don’t know. But Sophie brings…

Riese: The think about Molly is you can love a lot of people.

Drew: It is true. That is my favorite drug.

Riese: Yeah. The first time I did ecstasy, three different people called me to tell me they loved me.

Drew: Oh wow.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Yeah. And I was like, this is really bizarre! And not how I thought this night was going to go. But I mean obviously I was happy to reciprocate.

Drew: Did any of those get you in trouble?

Riese: No.

Drew: The were like, it was…

Riese: It was like an ex, a friend who had been helping. I’ve been taking care of him because he was sick.

Drew: It wasn’t like love confessions.

Riese: No, no, no. It wasn’t Love confessions. No.

Drew: Sophie brings them lollipops, which is so clutch, like so good of Sophie. Dani’s very high. And we see her rainbow POV, which was fun.

Riese: She was like dancing to… Yeah.

Drew: Leisha was really having fun with the drug direction in this episode.

Riese: Yes. Her dancing to the elevator music, was that here?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: That was really funny.

Analyssa: I love that this episode and last episode, Kate’s. Like you can feel their sensibilities really shining in these episodes. I thought that was so fun. I was watching this being like oh, of course Leisha Hailey directed this. This is amazing.

Riese: Of course. It was so cute.

Drew: Pippa says bye to Sophie because the wedding’s delayed. And so Pippa’s like, “I’m at my ex’s wedding. I was being nice. I’m not going to wait around while they’re stuck in a fridge.”

Analyssa: Honestly. Reasonable. Except that there’s an open bar and a lot of important people here. Schmooze, I don’t know, have fun.

Drew: And like hot people! Sophie, Dani and Roxy are like, “Are you with her?” And she’s like, “No. And should I run after her?” It’s really fun. Again, everything with Sophie and Pippa is perfection.

Riese: Yeah. And Dani’s like, “She’s this huge famous artist and she used to date Bette Porter,” and Sophie’s like, “Oh my God, she used to date Bette Porter?”

Analyssa: The quick recap from Dani while on drugs is so funny and being like, “She thinks I’m the devil, but I’m obsessed with her.” It’s perfect.

Drew: So then…

Analyssa: Yeah. And I was really thinking about the lineage of Bette Porter and Sophie and having dated Pippa, and Sophie getting a promotion, entering this rank of powerful lesbian.

Riese: Yeah. She’s dating Bette Porter’s ex.

Analyssa: Very cool.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I mean Dani already did.

Drew: So then Sophie runs after Pippa, and Dani cries. And is like, “I’m so happy that we’re friends.

Analyssa: We’re friends.

Drew: We’re really friends. So Sophie catches up with Pippa, and it’s great.

Riese: Yeah. It’s wonderful. I’m so happy for them.

Drew: Pippa makes a joke about not being mad that Tina and Bette are stuck in the fridge, which brought me so much joy. And they steal the just-married car.

Riese: Yes. Golf cart.

Analyssa: So fun.

Riese: Angie. I don’t know why we still have to keep seeing this man.

Analyssa: Why did this happen in this episode?

Riese: This was the episode for her and Bella.

Analyssa: Was he contractually obligated to seven episodes? He was in so many.

Riese: He was in so many more episodes than we needed to be.

Drew: Was he in more episodes than Micah? It was the same amount.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I’d have to look.

Riese: It might be the same amount. No. It’s less. Because he wasn’t in the first episode.

Drew: There’s no reason for him to…

Riese: And he wasn’t in the musical episode.

Drew: There is no reason for him to show…. Oh, right. Micah was in the musical episode. What a great role that was. Well why? They could have ended it the last… Why is he here just to have… It’s sort of how I felt about having Tess and Shane have that big breakup scene the way it was. Right? I just was like, wait, if you’re going to have them break up, why are you having them break up like this? Why are you giving more fuel to this? And so with this, I just was like, we need him to show up just so he can disappoint Angie again? Why couldn’t that had happened, she goes to Hendrix’s place, is like, “Let’s hook up.” And he’s like, “I’m moving to New York.” And then she runs after Bella, or Bella’s in this episode with her, something.

Riese: And also, again, as a person who used to work in the publishing industry, the idea that you would move to New York City because an editor has expressed interest in your book is absolutely batshit.

Analyssa: Deranged behavior.

Riese: Yes. Unhinged.

Analyssa: It means nothing.

Riese: I mean, the choices I could have made every time an editor was interested in my book, and as you can tell, it’s not published. So I mean, there was some comedy here, I feel like. There was some stuff with Bette and Tina and an Angie, like, “Don’t say I told you so,” or something.

Analyssa: I guess. Yeah. Angie got to…

Drew: I just felt sad about it though. It wasn’t funny to me. I guess there’s some comedy there, but I just was like, I felt for Angie and I want better for her.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. I did like that. They let her be mean to him. But again, she was already sort of doing that last episode. Why didn’t we just wrap it up there and have her bring Bella to the wedding as a consolation date and then realize that they’re in love? Fun.

Riese: We all would’ve been so entertained.

Analyssa: And that’s most important is that the three of us are as entertained as possible.

Riese: Exactly. As we made clear today to Showtime, the most important thing about their show is that we get screeners and that we get the pod-…

Analyssa: Get the podcast done.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Also, Micah and Maribel, they have their donor. That could have been the end of their storyline. And then they could have been at the wedding. I don’t know why they’re at the wedding, but they’re at the wedding.

Analyssa: Later, we’ll talk about, there’s some people at this wedding that I have no explanation for why they’re there at all. So who cares?

Riese: I mean, I like that he was dating Maribel because that brought him closer to the rest of the group as opposed to when it was Jose. And that was a tertiary thing, which is the same thing they did with Max and Tom. And it has been more integrated. They’ve had more scenes and that’s been great. But this episode obviously was not like that.

Drew: Yeah. So unfortunately we do have to go to them. And Micah’s panicking about the insemination and decides to bring up Maribel’s disability now.

Riese: Again, also, he does begin all of this by acting like putting the sperm inside of her is going to 100% result in a baby that will be born in nine months. And I just don’t understand why they’re acting like that. But yeah, now they’re talking about it?

Drew: Our generous read to the writers of The L Word: Generation Q, the television program on Showtime was, okay, they’re going for something where they’re trying to normalize disability by not engaging with it, which we talked about why that’s wrong, why it’s better to engage with it, and why you can still make it positive, or you can still make someone three dimensional. And actually not engaging with someone’s disability. Not engaging with someone’s transness isn’t actually some gift that you’re giving. But we were like, okay, but that’s why they’re not doing it. To do it now?

Analyssa: And in this explosive weird way… There’s no…

Riese: There’s one part where Maribel starts to say, “The doctor said,” but it’s drowned out. I think that might be later in their argument. I don’t remember. But that just, why didn’t they have us there for the doc? And Micah’s saying that she might die. Does he say that here? Saying she might die. There’s all kinds of complications for someone, ways that it’s hard on your body if you have muscular dystrophy, but the chance of dying while giving birth is not necessarily the most likely result at all. It’s a very weird thing for him to say. And also honestly, is the exact opposite of what anyone should be trying to do. It’s too dramatic. There’s lots of complications and ways that it’s going to be tough on her physically. But I could be wrong. But it’s my understanding that death during delivery is not necessarily one of them.

Drew: And if it was a concern for Micah, that should have happened earlier. It’s so absurd to not have that addressed. Micah’s anxieties earlier were about being a parent. What was Micah’s question to Max? How do you know when you need to change a diaper or whatever? The idea of this coming up now is so gross. It’s just so gross. It makes me so angry, both for Micah, for Maribel, for trans people, for disabled people. To have this happen while most of the episode is concerned with this big celebratory wedding. And then the only times we go away, I mean, we’ll come back to this scene and it gets even worse. But it’s so…

Riese: It’s what they used to do with Max.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, what, are we going to, 10 years from now, have another L World?

Riese: A reckoning.

Drew: And we’ll bring Maribel back to say, “I’m sorry.” It’s wild that the one thing that I can say for a fact was done better on Gen Q when it comes to lots of different representation issues, is bringing Max back and giving him a happy ending. Very nice. But that happened in season three, and it happened because of how they were talking about their own show on the first season, and me feeling like it was wrong, and reaching out to Daniel. They didn’t reach out to Daniel. And a lot of other people were- I’m not taking credit for it. A lot of people were involved to get Daniel back on the show. Jenni Olson being a really big one, but it wasn’t from their own place of, we want to make up for this. Their way of making up for it was the existence of Micah and…

Riese: Pierce.

Drew: …Pierce.

Riese: And I think their other way was to not have Micah surrounded by transphobes.

Drew: Sure. So we don’t need to pretend the original series, especially the later seasons weren’t brutal and brutally transphobic. But this, it’s just a different kind of transphobia. And I don’t think we need to talk about better or worse because I don’t think that’s helpful. But the way that Micah was treated for three seasons, and the way that the trans characters in general were treated for three seasons, and the way that this disabled character has been treated, and especially in this final episode, that could be the final time we see this character, is appalling. It makes me so mad. And it makes me so mad in a way where I can’t even engage with it. And I mean, I feel the same way about Tess’s storyline and we’re going to get to this, it’s such a disappointment, and in a way that makes me just… I mean, it’s altered my relationship to media in a way that the original series, because it came out years before I was out, couldn’t have in the sense that I’m so grateful for the second season of Sort Of, I’m so grateful for P-Valley and that it got renewed for a third season.

These shows that aren’t maybe bringing our community together with watch parties and all of these things in the same way, but I’m just happy to watch at home, talk to with a few friends, and just be grateful that there’s actual queer artists out there making great work. And so I’m so happy that those shows exist. And it makes me just like… The desire for media that has a wider base, that has an audience that goes beyond those identities, not that Sort Of and P-Valley aren’t watched by people who aren’t trans obviously, but just the way that The L Word has cultural cachet, the way that Euphoria is tweeted about every week, I don’t care. I don’t want to be a part of it. I wish they would stop putting trans people on those shows. I truly, I wish they would stop it because they don’t know how to write the characters.

Anyways. Do we want to go to Tess doing coke?

Riese: Yes. So Tess, she’s doing coke in the car, and she’s really doing coke.

Drew: She’s really doing it.

Riese: Really doing it. Coke, Coke, Coke. Coke. Coke,

Drew: It’s a little…

Riese: Coke.

Drew: It reminded me of Alice chugging pills. Where you’re just like, two pills would still do this. Why do you need a visual of this?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Also you can’t chug antidepressants. That’s not how it works.

Analyssa: Is this the part where she’s flashing back to different…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. That was unnecessary.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Leisha’s having more fun, happy for Leisha. Yay. We get to go to Pippa and Sophie. Thank God.

Analyssa: So yeah. Pippa and Sophie are having a conversation, they’re talking about their lives and their work. And Pippa has been offered a career retrospective by the Hammer. Congratulations.

Riese: Nice. Can’t wait to go to that.

Analyssa: And Sophie is talking about…

Riese: For a second, I was like, “I can’t wait to…” Oh.

Analyssa: I literally was like, oh my God, really? Artist of our time Pippa Pascal. And then Sophie’s talking about how she got hired on the Alice Show, which is that she did two documentaries. One went to Sundance, Alice saw it, which LOL. No. She didn’t. Not my Alice. I love her. But she’s not watching Sundance documentaries.

Drew: No. Someone on her team maybe saw it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: For sure.

Riese: Drew, her unpaid intern saw it.

Analyssa: And then called Sophie. Sophie does a really good Alice impression, which I think is fun. And then Pippa, despite not knowing what Sophie’s first two documentaries are, fine, is like, what’s your next one?

Riese: Yeah. And I think it’s showing that maybe Sophie is better with somebody who’s also artistic and working on their own independent projects that can encourage her to do the same. Whereas Finley’s just not at that place yet and including the reason that she had this really shitty family situation. So she never really was able to figure out what her passions were. She just had to find work.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re in a time of life that I feel like this was really accurate. Some people start to accelerate in their career, and their passions, and get the opportunities, and move ahead really quickly. And you’re with people, or friends with people, or whoever who just for any number of reasons, that doesn’t happen for, and it starts to feel like so unbalanced. This was like…

Riese: Very LA.

Analyssa: Yeah. Seeing her with Pippa, I was like, “Oh, I don’t feel like she’s too young, or too inexperienced, or too immature to be with someone like this. I really was like, “Oh.” Kind of when Dani and Gigi picked up together, you were like, “Oh. All right. This actually might make more sense.”

Drew: Yeah. And then they almost kissed.

Analyssa: Of all the ways that makeouts have been interrupted on this program this season though, was this not the best one?

Drew: It was funny. I do think after the cow mooed, I would just kiss again.

Riese: Yeah. I know. I was like, why aren’t you…

Drew: Why aren’t you kissing? What?

Riese: Yeah. Just laugh. And keep your faces a little close together and kind of turn and laugh, and then stick your tongue down her throat.

Drew: This is the best kind of kiss. It’s like the cow took the tension out and so if it’s not a great first kiss, you can blame the cow. Try again later in the night. Come on.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: But Sophie has convinced Pippa to stay for the wedding.

Drew: Yes. Which is important.

Riese: Hot.

Drew: Dani tells Roxy that she’s beautiful and Roxy’s like, “I didn’t know that you were noticing me because you’ve been talking about Dre all night.” And then they kiss.

Riese: And then…

Drew: I had to be told by Elise who these people were, but she really didn’t really tell me who they were. She told me someone was Australian and someone’s named G Flip, and that’s about what I’ve got.

Analyssa: Really?

Riese: I think this is your moment.

Analyssa: The Australian is named G Flip.

Drew: Oh, I see. Okay. So I was confused. Oh, one’s a realtor which I got from the show.

Riese: Yeah. On Selling Sunset.

Analyssa: On Selling Sunset.

Riese: I know that we had to write, or Anya wrote it, but I had to be educated on this topic because we wrote an article about it, but I do believe that…

Drew: But I’m not doing that thing that people would do in high school where they’d be like, “Who’s Miley Cyrus? I don’t know Hannah Montana.” I promise that I’m not trying to be. I’ve obviously heard these names before, but this was a moment where I didn’t recognize them. And then I was like, “Oh, I’ve heard those names. Who are these people?” I would love to know. Educate me.

Analyssa: No, no. To be clear, I also have no engagement with these people outside of the fact that they are queer and were a big deal. This is when you watch TikTok and know everything about Fletcher and “Becky’s So Hot” and Shannon Beveridge, I just-

Drew: I think I’m better at just swiping past people when they bore me.

Analyssa: I watch all of that. Okay.

Riese: I know, because I’m always like, could this be a post? Could this be a post?

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah, I’m like, what’s going on?

Drew: Yeah. Okay, wait, so…

Analyssa: Okay, so…

Drew: Thank you.

Analyssa: G Flip is an Australian musician.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Queer.

Drew: Got it.

Analyssa: Always had a musician vibe. Chrishell Stause?

Riese: Strause?

Analyssa: Stause? I don’t know. Was on Selling Sunset, a show I have not watched.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: They started posting each other, being in each other’s Instagrams… And Chrishell was married on Selling Sunset, and part of the plot line was her divorce-

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: …from a man.

Drew: I see.

Analyssa: And everyone was like, Chrishell and G Flip are hanging out. Is this-

Drew: Yeah, completely unexpected.

Analyssa: Gay hanging out? It was a really weird crossover of people being like, why are these two people in the same room?

Drew: I see.

Riese: Yeah. And I guess Selling Sunset is super, super popular, right?

Analyssa: People really love Selling Sunset. I’ve never watched it.

Riese: I don’t want to watch a show about people who can afford houses that-

Analyssa: Living in LA and watching the rich people in LA, actually is painful to me… Instead of, if I lived where I grew up, I would be like, oh my God, look at those fancy houses-

Riese: I know, because I would be like, here I could afford a house.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. But anyway, they started being in each other’s Instagram posts, and everyone’s like, what the fuck? And they are dating, they’ve been together… It was a huge deal because both are very famous in their niche-

Drew: Right. Very different.

Analyssa: …communities, and then crossed over.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: And then Chrishell was in G Flip’s music video, that’s like how they launched-

Riese: And she came out on a Selling Sunset reunion or something like that. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Got it. And did we know they were going to be on the show?

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: I did not.

Drew: Okay. Chrishell reveals that Gigi and Nat are engaged… I don’t know if there’s anything else you want to say about this little moment?

Analyssa: I want to know why they’re at this wedding?

Drew: Oh, don’t they say-

Analyssa: They never… No.

Drew: Don’t they know Roxy?

Analyssa: Roxy is Dani’s plus one.

Drew: No, it’s Roxy’s home. It’s Roxy’s family home.

Riese: Oh, but I thought they were surprised to see Roxy.

Analyssa: Oh… Is that why this is at-

Drew: Yeah, that was-

Riese: Oh, you’re right.

Drew: They said that it was Roxy’s family estate.

Riese: Yeah, it’s Roxy’s family.

Analyssa: Oh, I missed that completely.

Drew: I want to ask a question here. How many people do you know who have a family estate?

Analyssa: Zero.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: One.

Analyssa: Well, I have a friend who has a really rich uncle who has an estate that I’ve been to.

Drew: I need to meet some more people with family estates. That’s a good 2023 goal.

Riese: Yeah. If you are listening and you have a family estate and you would like to invite us to tour the grounds, you may, at any time. We would love to.

Analyssa: We would love to. We’ll do-

Drew: We’ll party.

Riese: Pool party.

Drew: Remember, we’ve been wanting to… But no one… Come on.

Riese: Yeah. Invite us to a pool party. I’ll bring Carol, I could also not bring Carol… It’s completely optional.

Analyssa: It’s up to you.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: So yes, they bring the news that Gigi and Nat are engaged.

Riese: Which okay.

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: So yeah, I guess Gigi… Anyway, Dani discovers she’s over it. And Roxy bought a house?

Drew: Yeah. No… Bought?

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, she doesn’t say it until… I think she says later… But she’s like, “I got a condo in Echo Park.” And I was like, of course.

Riese: Of course, you did.

Analyssa: Of course, you did. Sure.

Drew: I just feel like I know people who have money, for sure… But it’s just a different kind of money.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. You know the show, Succession?

Drew: I don’t watch it, but I do know of it, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Well, they have an estate.

Analyssa: I actually got Succession vibes from when Tess is in the car with the bartender doing coke.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was a very Succession vibe.

Analyssa: I was like…

Riese: You know who else? Have you seen The Crown? If you’ve ever seen The Crown, they have an estate also.

Drew: I’ve actually listened to-

Riese: Or Harry and Megan?

Drew: I listened to the five-part, You’re Wrong About, about Princess Diana. That’s really all I know about the royals, is what is in those episodes.

Riese: Well, I’m sure they may have mentioned.

Drew: Yeah, I think they might have several estates.

Riese: Yeah, several estates, I believe that is the case. Dani apparently didn’t really believe that Roxy was going to come here and stay… But it seems like Roxy’s ready to do it.

Analyssa: Yeah. Roxy’s like, I’m here… And she’s here for Dani, and also to ruin Dre’s life.

Riese: Yeah. And they-

Analyssa: Which, that was the first time that I was bummed about the Dre thing. I was like, well, but that means that Dre’s going to be hurt, and I like Dre.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I also like Roxy, but why are we in this situation?

Drew: It’s so funny because there are ways to do… Honestly, the best love triangle is where I like everyone involved. There are ways to do that… Do you know what would be really fun? If Dre had been Dani’s date to the wedding and hooked up with Roxy somehow… If that had somehow happened.

Riese: Or they could have had group sex.

Drew: Group sex.

Riese: Yeah. This could have been like the Sense8 wedding.

Drew: Oh.

Analyssa: God.

Riese: Everyone could have been in a big pile naked. And that was an option that existed on the table and nobody was willing to step up to the bat and be brave and do that-

Drew: When Gen Q gets canceled and everyone says, renew Gen Q, and they just give it a movie. The movie can end…

Riese: My Christmas special…

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We’ll end with that?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: All right.

Analyssa: Rose Rollins has returned to look really great on our TV screens.

Riese: Oh God, I love her so much.

Analyssa: I don’t think-

Riese: I also think-

Analyssa: …I think there was so much going on in the last episode when she arrived, that I don’t think we made enough commotion about how good she looks. `Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Honestly, this is the first episode where I feel like I really got it. I think in the original show I just had too many complicated military and then police feelings, to really-

Analyssa: Because you watched it recently, right? In the last five years?

Drew: Yeah, I watched The L Word for the first time in 2017.

Analyssa: Yeah. I watched it in 2019 for the first time.

Drew: So-

Riese: Yeah, I watched it as it aired, and it seemed completely unproblematic.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Absolutely.

Drew: But this… Yeah, I got it. She’s very hot.

Analyssa: Just…

Riese: Just really…

Analyssa: …amazing work.

Riese: Yeah, looks fantastic, and then is going to leave…

Analyssa: Okay, yeah-

Riese: And I’m realizing, I wrote an outline or whatever, but I think that I’m used to having already written the recap… So I would remember what happened in each scene beyond just my notes, which are like, Tasha Rescues Bette and Tina.

Drew: Yeah. That’s also all I have for that part, also-

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: …so, I don’t think a lot happens.

Analyssa: Yeah. She saws open the door, and Bette and Tina are both so thrilled to be released, and also thrilled to be looking upon Rose Rollins once more, that they give her these big hugs…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Bette has bubble wrap wrapped around her shoulders, which was delightful to me.

Riese: Imagine if they all actually said hi to each other… I feel like that’s something that they haven’t done in the past… Maybe that was Leisha, realistically they would-

Analyssa: They would know each other and acknowledge this.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Right. Yeah, that happens later with Shane also, where I was like, oh, we exist in real universe… Is this our script coordinator, friends, or is this the director, Leisha Haley?

Riese: Right. Hard to say-

Drew: Whoever it is, thank you.

Riese: Whoever it is, thank you so much.

Analyssa: But Tina’s like, “You should stay, obviously…” And Tasha has a little snark at Alice about, that’s how normal people greet each other after seeing each other for a long time… Which I thought was great.

Riese: Yeah. Also, when she was like, “You should stay…” Alice was shaking her head no. And I was sitting there like, yes, you better make her stay.

Analyssa: She has to stay.

Riese: I also realized, I think the other thing about the Sophie/Finley thing is that, the amount that I desire Tasha and Alice together… And I might desire Tasha better with someone else if I’d seen her with someone else, but this is what I saw. This is all I know. This is how I grew up. This is-

Drew: This is the way that we live.

Analyssa: This is the way that we… live.

Riese: This is the way that we live… I ship them so hard that that was able to overwhelm my Sinley shipping feelings.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Mm-hmm.

Drew: So, there’s nothing really to add that I didn’t, and we all didn’t just say in the last time we were-

Riese: Well, there is to add that I cannot believe you threw and broke a vial of $700 sperm.

Drew: Yes. Yeah. And it just is this thing where it makes both characters so in the wrong, about a thing where I’d rather neither of them be in the wrong…

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: This is the thing that I feel like we’ve been criticizing all season, which is, why does this feel cruel to both of them? When, this is a conversation that is important and that they, maybe not rationally, because it’s an emotional issue, but reasonably would have discussed a long time ago before it became this knockdown, drag out, packing my bags and leaving kind of fight.

Riese: Also, why are you packing your bags?

Analyssa: This would’ve been a totally normal thing that comes up, in the way that you talk about parents, for people who are living these realities… It’s so crazy to watch them go at each other about something that you’re kind of like, yeah, this anxiety makes sense and the conversation makes sense, why did we create these characters to have this artificial conversation that is a fight and is…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. It just feels mean, it does not feel empathetic at all.

Riese: No. There is this part in, I think near the end of season six, where Max wakes up and Tom has left him, and he’s in a white T-shirt and underwear, and the full beard that they gave him for that season or whatever… And he’s so uncomfortable and he is so unhappy, and he just walks out of the tool shed where he’s living… Jenny’s famous tool shed. And standing there just realizing that Tom left. That’s the same way that I felt about this ending scene with Mari, where she’s left alone in the house, the broken sperm is on the ground, and Micah’s walking out… It was just really brutal. And it had that same vibe.

Drew: And again, I hope we’re wrong, but this is probably going to be the last episode… So it’s probably the last time we’re going to see these two characters. And I guess it’s nice that Micah’s in the car and calls Max… So I guess, once again, the only good thing to show does with Max, but it’s so wild to leave Mari like that.

Riese: And it’s wild, also, to have… It’s so cheap when they have you call, like you can summon an old character without actually having to summon the character…

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: If you’re going to invoke Max, send Micah to his house and have Max talk to him. Although, I don’t know what they could talk about because we’re not in reality anymore… The fact that this conversation is happening in this way at this time is just simply not true.

Drew: I just wish that they hadn’t been in this episode-

Riese: Yeah, me too.

Drew: Cut these scenes.

Riese: Yeah. And with engagement in episode eight-

Drew: Yeah, Carrie and Misty aren’t in this episode, so-

Analyssa: This is worse, this feels worse-

Drew: Why are they here? What is this? What is the point of this? Don’t have them in this episode… You don’t have enough time to get into any of these things you’re bringing up, so don’t have them in this episode. We would complain about that too, we’d be like, why aren’t these characters in the episode? But it’s better than this. And then you could have had more time to do some fun stuff at the wedding.

Riese: Yeah. Honestly, they didn’t need to put Tess in this episode either.

Analyssa: Or Hendrix.

Riese: Or Hendrix, yeah. So, back at the wedding, Shane is kind of eyeing Tess, seems to notice that Tess is under the influence of perhaps some drugs or alcohol.

Drew: But then the wedding planner pulls her away, and it doesn’t really feel like Shane’s character… Because, I don’t know. I just feel like Shane is the person who has character traits, and I feel like some of those traits would-

Analyssa: That’s a hot take.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Some of those traits would include not… Even if she and Tess are in a bad space, if she thinks that Tess has relapsed, not going off with this wedding planner, who she already had sex with… She would be like, no, I need to deal with this. That felt really weird on Shane’s part too.

Riese: Yeah, when she said it, because you’re always auto-filling the rest of the scene in your head… I was like, oh, Shane’s going to be like, absolutely not. No-

Analyssa: I did too, I thought she was going to be like, yeah, wait for me, I have something that I have to take care of first-

Riese: Right, yeah.

Analyssa: …Shane has always been unfailingly loyal. That is one thing-

Riese: And concerned about everybody’s general wellbeing.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: And I just was shocked to see her be… Especially without a line that’s like, she’s going through something, but we are broken up, so I guess it’s not my place… I would’ve been like, okay, kind of. Never addressed.

Riese: They had her do that so that Tess could walk in on them. But I think that they shouldn’t have had Shane notice Tess being drunk.

Drew: No. We’ve talked about this before but, weirdly enough, Gen Q has also really failed Shane. I don’t have as much of a political issue with that, but it’s wild how, by far, of the returning characters… Tina’s had more of an arc. This is not who Shane was in the original series. Shane was an interesting person in the original series, with a lot of qualities, and it feels like Gen Q was written by people, some of whom hadn’t even seen the original series.

Riese: Right, which we now know is possible-

Analyssa: It’s really possible, I was just about say. I wish Shane had more traits to write to other than sex. I was like, have you watched the television program?

Riese: She has so many-

Analyssa: What are you talking about?

Riese: They set up a lot of really interesting stuff with Shane.

Analyssa: She was arguably, one of the most-

Riese: She has more family history than Tina.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: …complex characters in the original, she’s got so much background.

Drew: She was working as a rent boy… She has such a past.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Wild.

Analyssa: So-

Riese: Tasha and Alice?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yes. Tasha and Alice.

Riese: Tasha and Alice have a fight, which is, they start to fight about why they broke up… Tasha didn’t like Alice being famous, or didn’t want to be her plus one… But then it shifts, and it comes out… And the way that Tasha says it is a little bit weird, but whatever. That she felt like Alice was still in love with Dana and that she talked about her so much that she felt like she knew her in a way.

Analyssa: In a way.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And Alice starts freaking out.

Riese: Twinkle twinkle… And I was like, even though the fact that there were things about the fight that I didn’t care for, I was pleased at how it was resolved.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Wait, for someone who does not have an encyclopedic knowledge of The L Word, aka me…

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: What seasons were Tasha and Alice together?

Riese: They met mid-season four, and then they were together for most of season five… They broke up for two episodes and got back together, and then they were together for season six, but got involved with this other person too, Jamie-

Analyssa: I remember…

Riese: …And it this weird love triangle thing.

Analyssa: I do remember that.

Riese: But at the end, Tasha came back to Alice.

Drew: Tasha gets introduced in my favorite episode of the show, right? Luck Be a Lady?

Riese: That’s her second episode.

Drew: Okay.

Riese: Yeah. That’s her second episode.

Analyssa: Okay. Thank you.

Riese: They meet at the bar after Jenny and Alice have the fight about Monet, and stealing people’s ideas, and Alice is wearing the hat and the vest.

Analyssa: That scene is-

Drew: What a great… I don’t want to romanticize the original series, I’m aware that there are problems, but the difference of how I feel about a show that had problems made from 2004 to 2009 is just different than how I feel about a show being made now. So, I have a lot of love for the original series, and I won’t apologize for it.

Analyssa: That scene circulates on my TikTok every once in a while, and I watch it in full every single time. The Monet argument-

Riese: Yeah, it’s good.

Analyssa: It’s so good.

Riese: It’s perfect.

Drew: Didn’t we get a moment where a wedding planner tells Shane that she’s married, but that she’s open? We also learned that she’s from Glendale, but whatever. And Shane is like, “Oh, and that works for you?”

Riese: But I feel like this was another one of those things where I was like, finally addressing this issue-

Drew: Sure-

Riese: But it felt like it was something added on in this episode to make up for the sins of many, I don’t know, seasons past.

Drew: Right. And then they start kissing again and then Tess sees. And then the wedding starts? Tina’s in a red velvet suit and Bette’s in a black suit, and then it’s interrupted because Tess is screaming at Shane in the middle of the wedding, runs into the cake, ruins the cake…

Riese: I talked to Gretchen earlier, and I was like, I didn’t want to tell her anything about the episode, but I was like, “Yeah, the Tess stuff is really bad.” And she was like, “What, does she get wasted and fall into the cake?” And I told her ahead… I was like, “I’m not going to tell you anything, I want you to watch it blind. I’m not giving you any spoils.” And I was like-

Analyssa: Well.

Riese: “She did. She did actually get drunk and fall into the cake.” So I have to-

Drew: There’s one moment that I liked, which is Pippa saying to Sophie, “This particular friend group is full of drama…” And there was one moment that bothered me even more, because after having even just a brief introduction from Elise, who Chrishell and G Flip are… When Tess yells, “Any ladies out there want to be Shane’s next conquest?” And they both raised their hands… I’m like, oh, we’re doing a fun little joke with these famous white queers… And it just was like, oh, right, you care about Fletcher, you care about Chrishell and G Flip, you don’t care about…

Analyssa: Well, I’m-

Riese: I did laugh.

Analyssa: I also did laugh at that joke, but the rest of the stuff around it, is so… Again, just cruel to Tess. The whole thing is written for comedy, the wedding planner has all these asides of like, well, that’s just perfect, that’s how my day is going… It’s all side-showy. Everyone is pointing and laughing at Tess. It’s literally-

Drew: Honestly, this is what reminded me of the Max baby shower.

Analyssa: …it’s like schoolyard bullying. I just am inviting anyone to remember that this is a television show, where people are made up. So even to say, relapses happen… Okay, fine. Relapses happen and you can really spiral, all the coke that she uses… Okay, sure. Relapses happen and you make a scene… Okay, but why do I have to watch that, and why did you have to write that? Why are you so compelled? People who are alcoholics or not alcoholics know that the possibility of relapse exists… Don’t need to show it to them. So then you’re just showing it to who? People who have not experienced it before? I guarantee you they’ve seen this on TV before.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. Especially done this poorly and cheaply.

Analyssa: There is no need… It just made me so uncomfortable. The whole thing is so uncomfortable. And the end scene of Tess leaving, which we’ll get to, I’m sure. Also, I didn’t understand what they want me to feel…

Drew: I’m going to say something that I might get in trouble for, but I’m going to even let Lauren keep it in, I think… Which is that, I think that trans actors can play cis. I think a lot of trans actors… I talked to someone who watched the entire first season of Euphoria and did not know that Hunter Schafer was trans. Which is wild, because it’s pretty explicitly stated… But did not catch that.

Riese: Yeah. It is pretty big-

Drew: Yeah. Cis people do not know, so I’m not saying this from a place of I don’t think that trans actors should get to play parts that are cis, whatever… But, as a trans audience member, Jamie Clayton is trans. Not because I know who Jamie Clayton is, and I know that she’s trans… I can tell that she’s trans. I can usually tell that people are trans. And her voice is a trans woman’s voice. It’s feminine… I don’t say that with negative connotations. It’s a more cis passing voice than mine is. I don’t think there’s value in being cis passing.

Riese: Right.

Drew: So whether or not Tess is trans, which obviously she’s not, we’ve covered this many times. I’m watching that happen to a trans person-

Riese: Also, we know because we are involved in the macro world around the show… But people, when I talk to them about the show, they’ll say Tess is a trans character. They have no idea that she’s not supposed to be. So I promise you, probably half the people watching this show do think that it’s a trans character.

Drew: Right. So, I don’t think we need to pretend, even trans women who look like Jamie Clayton, aren’t still clockable in some ways, and that it’s just so… it’s so brutal.

Analyssa: It’s just humiliation in such a needless way-

Riese: Yeah, I don’t think they needed it.

Analyssa: …It’s such a pile on. It feels unnecessary.

Riese: I don’t think we needed her in the episode at all.

Drew: No.

Riese: I don’t know, bring back Molly or something… Everyone else is coming back. Shane didn’t need that.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: So Finley hustles Tess out of the venue, finally… Shane tries and it doesn’t really work, and Finley finally gets Tess outside, and then this man who has driven off the set of Succession, pulls up, and is like, “Do you want to get in my car?”

Drew: Who is he? Who is this man?

Analyssa: No, no. And Tess says she doesn’t want to be sober, she just wants to have fun with her friends… Who are her friends? We don’t know what she’s talking about. And is like, “Finley, you have to let me go.” And I was like, what am I supposed to be believing here?-

Riese: For either of them, I don’t really know what’s going on or what the point of this is.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: So that whole plot, throw it in the garbage to me. So, Tess leaving and demolishing the cake, an infuriating choice. But then, we do get what I think is delightful. Alice, Tina, Shane, and Bette have reassembled the cake into a mound, and put the little topper on it. And this whole shot of them eyeballing the cake and moving around the cake and talking about it, I was like, amazing.

Riese: Yeah. And with all their heads tilted.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: It reminded me of how little of that type of comedy we get to see on this show, actually.

Analyssa: Yes.

Drew: But it was one of those cases of this episode where, yeah, it’s really fun, it also makes the contrast even more clear… If Bette and Tina were yelling at Shane about being selfish, then I’d be like, okay, this show is so dramatic… Oh my God. But having this really sweet moment of comedy where we get some references to Alice dating the vampire… That was on my Gen Q wishlist before the show started, that we bring back the vampire.

Riese: Honestly, it’s slander of the vampire, because they were talking about these things as mistakes-

Drew: Yeah, the vampire was great. That was the hottest sex scene in L Word history.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. They’re like, let me list off the biggest, most worst things I’ve done to other people… And Alice’s was not, outed Daryl Brewer… As was a plot line really recently. They’re like, “You dated that vampire.”

Riese: Right. I don’t know… Dana-

Analyssa: Stalking Dana.

Drew: Stalking Dana.

Riese: Stalking Dana, and also Tina saying, “Leaving Bette for Carrie.” That’s-

Drew: That’s not bad, that was good.

Riese: Here’s what’s bad, Henry… Daddyof2

Analyssa: DaddyOf2

Drew: Daddyof2. Yeah. But Bette says, Bette slept with Candace in jail. They bring that a ton up-

Riese: Again, another hot scene.

Drew: A hot scene. But this season hates sex.

Riese: They do. Bette could have said, I slept with my intern Nadia, for example.

Drew: Yeah. And now I’m having to reflect on that because my daughter has had an affair with her professor.

Riese: Right. Yeah. Wait, what was Shane’s bad thing? Is that when they-

Analyssa: Left Carmen.

Riese: Oh yeah, that was bad.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: That one, yeah. Pretty much, I have no argument with that.

Riese: Right. Then we have the ceremony.

Analyssa: So yeah, then it’s time for the vows from Tina-

Riese: Ilene Chaiken.

Analyssa: They walk down the aisle, they do their vows, Alice has gotten ordained for it, and there are cuts to the audience, and Ilene Chaiken is there in her billowiest white top-

Riese: Just the clothes she wore to set that day, to say hi, when you know that someone was like, oh my god, Ilene be in the scene.

Analyssa: You have to come to the Tina and Bette wedding. And if we can get her on camera, we will. Yeah, absolutely.

Drew: I think that Gen Q should have gone the And Just Like That… route. And Just Like That… has-

Riese: Killed Mr. Big on a Peloton?

Drew: …has new characters, but it is very much like, “No, we’re just continuing this story.” Because ultimately, that’s what this show has done, right? I mean, even though Bette and Tina were gone most of the season, they still had a big hold on it, right? And when they were gone, it was to give Alice and Shane their moments. It’s what they do best. Sophie could have been at work for Alice. The way that the connections existed could have existed.

Riese: Yeah. Micah could have dated Alice.

Drew: Yeah, sure, whatever. They should have just done that.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: Because then right after, we have the vows and it’s very sweet and we get this moment. Then Alice apologizes to Tasha and Tasha’s like, “You’ve never said sorry before,” and they make up and Alice asks Tasha to dance and it’s great. It’s so-

Riese: Yeah. I also cried. I thought what she said was really good, where she was like, “I tried to be so busy to not think about Dana.” It was like wow, really vulnerable, and then they were going to go dance and I was so excited.

Drew: So Bette and Tina are dancing, Shane and Angie chat, and then Angie’s like, “I’m going to go call Bella.”

Riese: Yeah. Also, Shane asked Angie to dance and she rejects Shane.

Drew: Yeah, that’s pretty brutal.

Riese: And Shane’s dying to dance with somebody.

Analyssa: Can someone dance with me, please? And then-

Riese: Dani can’t believe that Roxy’s staying.

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Dani’s like, “Is it a month-to-month lease?” And that’s when Roxy’s like, “I bought it. I own it. It’s mine.” And I was like, “Right, Dani’s really wealthy so Dani’s friends are really wealthy.”

Riese: Right, yeah. Maybe Chrishel sold her that house.

Drew: Well, that probably makes sense.

Analyssa: Yeah, maybe that’s why they know each other. And then Finley comes over to Shane.

Riese: This was so weird.

Analyssa: And having seen Tess relapse, I think is the point, is like there’s-

Riese: I have no idea.

Analyssa: …more sides to this story than I thought there were. So now I’m sorry that I yelled at you.

Riese: Yeah, because this also felt like a thing where I was like, “Good, they’re acknowledging that Finley yelling at Shane was stupid.” But that has nothing to do with Tess going through a lot of stuff. It was stupid regardless.

Analyssa: To begin with.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. And then Shane asks Finley to dance.

Riese: Yeah. Shane just really wants… And Finley’s like, “Okay.” And then Shane says, “Hi, Tasha.” Thank you for replicating real world actions.

Analyssa: And shoots Alice some eyes as she says, she’s like, “Mm-hmm.”

Riese: And they’re dancing, it’s so cute.

Drew: They’re dancing. It’s very cute.

Riese: I’m so happy for them.

Drew: And then Tina asks Bette to leave to go to their room and the scooter or the golf cart doesn’t work because-

Riese: Pippa and Sophie-

Drew: …Pippa and Sophie-

Riese: …took it to the cow field.

Drew: Which is fun.

Analyssa: They’re going to walk.

Drew: But they’re going to walk.

Analyssa: As wives, they say.

Riese: Wives and wives going down a long path of love.

Drew: And so we get a little end montage with some fun things. One actual fun thing is Pippa and Sophie make out, which I love that, happy sendoff to these characters. Wonderful. And this is a good excuse to just say this, that I didn’t realize this because I talk to you two and I talk to my friends who all have good taste, but there’s so many… I ended up on Gen Q TikTok, and people hate Sophie.

Analyssa: Really?

Drew: And it just feels like racism to me.

Analyssa: Oh, that 100%.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I mean, I haven’t seen it, but I just know because someone told us about it in our comments.

Analyssa: That has… There’s no other reason.

Drew: Yeah, it’s just so overt. But I’m so happy that Sophie gets this ending with Pippa. It’s great, makes me really happy.

Analyssa: Sophie’s like, “We could get a room,” and I was like, yes, give me five more minutes and they go get a room, please.

Drew: And it’s just them fucking.

Analyssa: Just getting edged by them, but that’s fine.

Riese: Right. But I don’t know. I like Pippa kind of bossing her around.

Analyssa: Yeah, big time.

Riese: Being like that this is the pace and this is what we’re doing.

Drew: Yeah, it’s good. Then Dani and Roxy are kissing and Dre walks up, which again, it’s just like-

Riese: What?

Drew: …this obviously isn’t as bad as what happens with Micah or what happens with Tess, but it still is like, “Okay, so we have this other trans character and it’s like, we’re ending with them being rejected.” It also is the kind of ending that there’s just, there are ways to end a season where you end it. The way you leave stories open-ended doesn’t feel so cliffhangery when you might not get another season. There are shows that have done it really well where yeah, you can tell that they should have had more time and there are things that are left unresolved, but it mostly feels coherent where this is what a weird way to end with this character who we barely even know at this point. Just don’t have Dre come back. If you get another season, it can be some conflict-

Analyssa: That’s a question.

Drew: …but just don’t have Dre come back if-

Riese: I’m happy for Carmen that they got paid for another episode.

Drew: True. Yeah.

Riese: But yeah, because also the fact that Dani left that voicemail is already a cliffhanger enough. We know Dre’s going to listen to it, we don’t know how they’re going to feel about it, but there’s some implication that they expect or Dre to pursue it some way.

Drew: Or Dre calling even, it’d be like, “Oh, shit, Dre’s calling.”

Riese: Yeah, Dre’s calling. Yeah.

Drew: Fine. That’s it.

Riese: Yeah. It could’ve even shown Dre calling so that Carmen had gotten paid for the episode.

Analyssa: So that Carmen still… Yeah.

Drew: And then the last one, which is so atrocious, which is, well, not the last one, but the next thing which is Finley gets a call from the police about Tess.

Analyssa: Perfect.

Drew: Which could be anything.

Analyssa: Anything.

Drew: That could be a death, right?

Riese: It could be death, it could be DUI, it could be arrest for cocaine possession, it could be car accident, it could be kitten in a tree.

Analyssa: I’ll tell you what it’s probably not, something fun or good.

Drew: Sure. I’m just saying-

Riese: It’s not going to be death, but…

Drew: But again, this could be the last episode, so we are ending with the possibility that she died. And we finally got to talk to the cops. They’ve been wanting to do it all season.

Riese: I know. They’re like, “We’ve got one more opportunity.” Meanwhile, I was looking at the time code being like, wait, they’re not going to have Bella walk into the wedding?

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: So then we end with Bette and Tina-

Analyssa: No.

Drew: … walking off into the proverbial sunset. And again, that’s what they wanted to do and they did it right, so Gen Q, really, the main error it made up for was Ilene Chaiken’s bonkers sixth season that turned her lesbian romance into a murder show for some reason. And they didn’t really do it because I have a lot more affection for Jenny than I do for Bette and Tina as a couple.

Riese: I have so much affection for Jenny that twisted, twisted weirdo.

Analyssa: Yeah. Sick, sick freak.

Riese: That sick gorgeous woman.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: And that’s the episode and that’s the season. And that might be The L Word.

Riese: Except for the Christmas special.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Except for the Christmas special.

Riese: So I loved all of the scenes that were shot at the wedding that didn’t involve Tess. And I think I could easily come up with a few things they could have added to that package for the episode that would not have been what instead was…

Analyssa: Yeah, I was really surprised. The Tess one was the big one, of that this really did not have a vibe of potential series finale. It’s just a surprising choice, not even for The L Word: Gen Q specifically, but just in the era of most shows get three seasons if they’re lucky and that’s like it.

Drew: Totally.

Analyssa: So you would think that any show would be like, “Okay, how do we land enough planes that it feels like a total complete thing, and leave enough kind of questions that if we came back, it would be fun and interesting and there’s still stuff to explore?” And I feel like the Tess thing, was especially jarring where I was like, “That actually is a question that would need an answer.” So if this-

Riese: And also, again, her driving off that guy was already a cliffhanger. They didn’t need the whole fucking story. But if they were going to do it, that could’ve ended right there.

Drew: Also, there are ways to have cliffhanger endings that the, I know a lot of people hate the ending of The Sopranos, but that pointedly has… There are ways to have cliffhangers. I mean, I’m so happy it got a season three, but the end of season two of Sort Of, I’m not going to spoil it if you’re behind because you should really catch it up and watch the show, it’s incredible, it ends with a really huge cliffhanger. But if the show had been canceled, it would’ve been a cliffhanger in a open-ended story, that there feels like a closure of an architecture, there’s that word again. And there are ways to do that. And the open-ended things here don’t. The same way that Dre hadn’t shown up, but there had just been the specter of Dre, then you still have this feeling of, what is Dani going to choose in her life? But the way that it’s shot is end of an episode cliffhangers, not end of season even cliffhangers.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: They’re also though historically really bad at cliffhangers, not just at the execution of the cliffhanger, but then what happens next. The cliffhanger with Sophie at the airport and then bring us back to her wedding, and with not a single, no idea what happened after that. Why did you do that? And to have Carrie have a heart attack and Finley be in in the next episode open, just sitting on couch-

Analyssa: Just completely… Yeah.

Riese: …and she’s in the next one. You guys, like someone, I mean, again-

Analyssa: And then in the Gigi car crash too, same thing.

Riese: Yeah, car crash. These sort of like, they love to put someone on a cliff and then drive up to the cliff in a really nice sports car and be like, “Hey, get in, let’s go back down.” No one ever jumps.

Analyssa: Or falls.

Drew: I mean, it’s partially because Marja had no TV experience, that she does not understand how TV works. I mean, and it’s something we’ve talked about in the sense that it’s like, I mean, I certainly don’t begrudge her taking the job, anyone would take the job, but-

Riese: Right. I too have no experience but would’ve happily taken the job.

Drew: Yes. But I mean, it is just this thing where-

Riese: Although now, I actually don’t know if I would do that because after seeing this, I’m like, I don’t know.

Drew: I mean, it’s just something that’s lost with how TV is made now, and it’s a real shame to not have. Not that, I mean, there are some ways that people getting opportunities who wouldn’t otherwise get opportunities who don’t have years of working in writers’ rooms, that gives opportunities to new people. And that’s great. But there’s the flip side of it, which is when someone truly has not worked on a TV show before, there’s going to be a real steep learning curve. And it’d be hard for anybody. So it’s why I think a lot of times new showrunners have a co-showrunner. I mean, I think about someone like Rachel Bloom who was… actually, she wasn’t new to TV, she’d written on Robot Chicken, but-

Analyssa: But that type of TV especially.

Drew: Yeah. And so she was paired with Aline Brosh McKenna, or going back to Girls, like Lena Dunham and Judd Apatow and whatever, and these things that, there is value in having that sort of mentor, mentee, co-showrunnership. And even though it’s clear that Ilene Chaiken handpicked Marja-Lewis Ryan, Ilene Chaiken wasn’t running the show.

Analyssa: Right, or in the room. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, imagine if, sure, I mean, Marja-Lewis Ryan wouldn’t have been my person who’d written one gay screenplay choice, but imagine if a younger queer person who’d written one gay screenplay was paired with Angela Robinson or someone who was just a real legend of the industry who worked on the original show, and there could have been so much… We wouldn’t have had to witness someone basically go to film school, go to the TV version of film school. And it’s so frustrating because there’s so many people who are so talented who just don’t get opportunities. So it’s a real bummer. Remember last year when I said that I wasn’t going to come back?

Riese: Yeah. I mean I guess, there’s some good things that were set up, like Tasha and Alice, Bella and Angie, but they also didn’t set up anything for Shane really.

Drew: No.

Analyssa: Finley doesn’t really have anything that she’s looking toward.

Riese: Besides maybe going to school. And honestly, she’s not living in a sublet where she has to clap to make roaches go away, I don’t think.

Analyssa: No.

Riese: Also, if you’re going to… Whatever. At least we didn’t have to go to her apartment. That was really going to be painful for me to experience.

Drew: Yeah. I know.

Analyssa: They brought in some storylines in ways that were delightful and look like they can arrow out if the show comes back, and if not, I get to live happily with the idea that Sophie and Pippa have a wonderful romance and they live together as long as they want to. But I’m just stuck on the Tess thing because it feels like they have an answer in mind of what happens. And if the show doesn’t come back, you will never know.

Riese: I don’t know if they do, because remember when season six ended and everyone was like, “Wait, so who killed Jenny?” And Ilene was like, “Oh, I don’t know, I didn’t write it. I didn’t know when I wrote…” And I’m like, even if you don’t reveal it, you have to know, as the writer.

Analyssa: You have an idea.

Riese: You have to know. You can’t write to an unknown. What? That’s like writing 101. So I don’t think they know.

Analyssa: Right. So-

Riese: Because also the way that, I don’t even get this police, why did she say it was Tess calling? Tess made Finley her emergency contact already? I don’t know.

Drew: Do police officers take a cellphone from someone and call the most recent called number? Because that does not seem like something a cop would do.

Riese: No, it doesn’t.

Drew: Unless she’s dead. Unless because-

Riese: Oh.

Drew: …if she’s in-

Analyssa: And they can’t ask her anything.

Drew: …if she’s in jail, then eventually she would get to make a call. It would be from an unknown number, it wouldn’t be from… I mean, unless they gave her cellphone back. I don’t, but…

Riese: Again-

Drew: What?

Riese: …Marja would be committing a hate crime on the community and herself if she actually killed Tess.

Analyssa: That would be wild. Although, much like the Sophie thing, there are a lot of Tess despisers out there, which also feels very nasty.

Drew: Yeah, which some of it’s transphobia and some of it’s racism for those two characters. And some of it’s how they’ve been written and how they’ve been treated and how they’re treated by Marja, who has her own biases.

Riese: Right. Well, I also think some of these characters have, like Sophie has flaws.

Drew: Sure.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: And I think that’s what weird, is people, they want to… In order to a character, you have to all their choices or behaviors. No, Jenny, for example, my all-time best friend, Jenny Schecter, she was an unhinged mess. But I love her and I connected to her in a certain way, in a good and bad.

Drew: The internet’s fave.

Analyssa: That’s how I feel about Alice personally. Alice is such a mess-

Riese: Right, Alice is my problematic fave.

Analyssa: …and yeah, so problematic and has done so much, honestly-

Riese: Harm.

Analyssa: …bad stuff in her life. And still, I watch her and I’m like, “I understand you. I care for you.”

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Because we also are all flawed.

Drew: It’s true.

Analyssa: Not me, though.

Drew: I mean, of the new people who the internet loves, Dani was a Sackler, question mark? Gigi worked in real estate. They’re not perfect.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Gigi works in real estate?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Gigi came to Alice and Nat’s home and-

Drew: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: …hammered a nail into their front door. That is scary behavior. And still, I was like, I love her. I’d die for her.

Riese: They need her on the show. They really do.

Drew: Well, you know what I hope? I’m putting all of my energy and prayer into A League of Their Own.

Riese: A League of Their Own.

Drew: I have nothing left for season four of Gen Q, sorry to the cast and crew, some of whom I do deeply love. But…

Riese: What about the Christmas special?

Drew: I mean, if they want to do a wrap-up movie, I would love that.

Riese: Okay. Thank you.

Drew: Especially if you got to write it.

Riese: Thank you so much. I appreciate your support.

Drew: But I just want A League of Their Own to come back. Talk about a reboot that’s so good. I mean, I know it’s a different kind of reboot, but oh, what a great show A League of Their Own is.

Riese: So good. Yeah. In part made by another former L Word person, Jamie Babbit, the director.

Analyssa: Oh, fun.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I mean, this is the thing, this is what I would love to see out of The L Word: Gen Q reboot that potentially is not moving forward, is more awareness of these queer people who worked on the show to then go… I would love to see Micah and Maribel and Sophie, all those people in new things now. And I will follow most of them to whatever they do next.

Riese: Including Christmas.

Analyssa: Including obviously first the Christmas special. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah, I mean, it’ll be-

Riese: Yeah, agreed. A hard agree on that.

Analyssa: And watching, I don’t know, seeing that Leisha and Kate directed episodes, I wonder if there’s a shift for them into directing more. Or like we said when Roxy first showed up, seeing someone be in these smaller queer roles a few years before they’re going to get some-

Riese: Yeah, I think she’s going to be big. Yeah.

Analyssa: That is always a really cool feeling, and I think is one of the best things to come out of the franchise.

Drew: I just hope that the industry has spots for…

Analyssa: Definitely.

Drew: I mean, I just look at Pose and obviously, I mean, I saw Billy Porter on Broadway years ago and he’s such an incredible talent and I’m so glad that it took being in a cast filled with trans women of color for him to be the one with privilege and to be able to make a career out of a part. And not that, I mean, Michaela Jaé Rodriguez has had stuff, but he’s definitely the person who post-Pose has had a real career bump and fame bump. And I just hope that it’s not just Jacqueline Toboni, I hope. And she’s great, I really hope that she is in a bunch of stuff, but I just, I hope there are parts for Leo and parts for Jillian and parts for Daniel and so many other people in the cast who are great.

Riese: Yeah. You know Ari was in a Hallmark movie of some kind where she was a lesbian doctor.

Analyssa: I did see the commercials for that. I should watch that.

Riese: I saw a clip of that on TikTok and I thought, “What?” I want to see Rosanny on a Crazy Ex-Girlfriend reboot.

Drew: I really want to see Rosanny in something.

Riese: I want to see her singing more. I love her.

Drew: She’s definitely been one of the real joys of watching The L Word, from the beginning, from watching Gen Q, I mean.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: You guys did so well switching back to their real names. I got so… My brain had been in character mode so much that I was like, “Ah, what?”

Riese: Yeah. You remember once upon a time, we were in that theater at the LGBT Center meeting them for the first time before the To L and Back: Generation Q Edition podcast.

Analyssa: It’s so wild.

Drew: I’m going to throw something out, which is, regardless of whether Gen Q improved over its three seasons, I know that I improved and I feel like you both have improved. And I think we’ve all been on a… Since that night, I think we’ve all come so far as people-

Riese: I mean, that is true.

Drew: …as queers, as sisterhood is powerful. I really just think that we’ve really grown a lot and I’m really proud of us.

Riese: Yeah, we really have. Me too. That week was so messy.

Analyssa: That week was incredibly messy.

Riese: There were so many parties. So many parties. Every day, I was so profoundly hungover, it was like my insides are being scraped out with a spork from Kentucky Fried Chicken that had been sitting in my drawer since 1975.

Drew: That was specific. Yeah. So I’m like, hey, let’s celebrate that.

Riese: Yeah, let’s celebrate that.

Analyssa: Let’s celebrate that, for us as lesbians.

Riese: For us as lesbians, growth, and for us as lesbians, sisterhood is powerful. And I think that-

Drew: That is it.

Riese: That’s it.

Analyssa: That’s what matters.

Lauren: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L And Back: Generation Q Edition, one of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter, @tolandback, and you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the talented, Be Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by Jax Co. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram, @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere, @Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram, @Analocaa with two As, and on Twitter, @Analoca_ with one A and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @Autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle, and of course, the reason why we’re all here, autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this up, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: Three, two, one — qualifiers.

Riese: Quince meat! You can see a quincemeat twinkle in my eye.

Drew: Can I ask something that I’ve been meaning to Google?

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Is quincemeat actually a thing?

Riese: No.

Analyssa: No.

Drew: Okay, I didn’t think so. I didn’t think so.

Analyssa: Riese made that up this season!

Drew: I know. Yeah, I thought it was like a mincemeat pie, and you just started saying quince meat. I guess there was one part of me that thought that for the whole time and then was like, “Wait, what if it’s actually a real thing and I have been missing it?”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Great. Glad we’re on the same page. What did you say, Ana?

Riese: Yeah, it’s-

Analyssa: I didn’t say anything because I was laughing so hard at Riese. But my word was going to be quintuplets because it’s the longest Q word I could think of, and also, because I would love to see Rosanny Zayas play quintuplets for no reason.

Drew: Oh, fun.

Analyssa: I don’t know, like an Orphan Black kind of situation.

Drew: Like identical. Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I think she could do it.

Analyssa: Five different roles.

Drew: I said qualifiers because when I say that I love The L Word and it holds a special place in my heart, I have to always have some qualifiers.

Riese: Oh wow, that’s good.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: That’s amazing. Well, thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for listening. If you love us a lot, we’ll make a link to our Autostraddle donor box and you can feel free to give us some money.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And thanks for coming along.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I don’t know why you feel like I need to whisper now.

Drew: I feel, it’s so annoying because the show’s so annoying but now I feel emotional that it’s over.

Analyssa: As soon as it ends, I’m like, “Please, no.” I’m like in a situationship with The L Word.

Riese: Yeah, no, I mean, I want it to come back, but I do, it’s hard for me to separate that from-

Drew: No. Some of it-

Riese: …my business interests in it.

Drew: Yeah, I also, I also.

Analyssa: For sure. I mean, same. We all have a vested interest in this show existing.

Riese: Yeah. We’re part of the industry.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: You know what I mean? It’s like, The L Word is a war, we manufacture bombs.

Drew: Wow. Geez. That is an apt metaphor.

Riese: I did that one for you because I know how you love the military.

Drew: Thanks for that. And on that note.

The L Word Generation Q Episode 310 Recap: Looking Full Steam Ahead I Guess

Welcome to the tenth recap of the third season of The L Word: Generation Q, brought to you by the same network that brought you the original L Word, a show about speaking the language of the manatees, high-stakes lesbian poker, pounding painkillers while your boss does a chemical peel, having sex with vampires, the bitter rivalry between a queer cafe noted for its Pear Polenta Tart and a nightclub with bubble chairs, brownies that might be gay, horse girls, a hybrid skate park/hair salon that also sold vests to gig in, men named Tom, installation art about core values, a philandering self-help guru peddling T.O.E., Eros the Bittersweet, the Lez Girls negative and the world’s most iconic garbage bag dress.

My friends, we have at last come to this Generation Q recap of Episode 310, “Looking Ahead,” the final episode of the season but also possibly the final episode of the entire series if the show is cancelled. “Looking Ahead” marked Leisha Hailey’s directorial debut and she killed it — you could feel her touch in so many of the more subtle cute friendship moments and comedic beats throughout the episode.

I did enjoy so much of this episode! But there were two storylines in this episode that I HATED and I bet you can guess what they were!

Usually I write these recaps beat by beat, not spoiling what comes next in my descriptions of what came first. Today I’m gonna be doing things a little differently — my recap of each scene will take into account what I already know from seeing the whole thing. Because I can’t figure out how to say what I need to say if I save every piece of commentary I possess until the entire storyline has played out!

---

We open on the most important moment in a young woman’s life: Bette and Tina’s wedding day. Faced with an artificial time constraint of one (1) week in which to coordinate the whole kit and kaboodle, our affluent couple has elected to make their dreams work through teamwork! Also, someone hired a crew of dapper gay minions right out of the Hedley & Bennet catalog. Luckily Alice totally knows what she’s doing:

Currently, Alice is unable to locate the wedding planner! This is because Shane located Kimmy the wedding planner and then located her clitoris and yep, Shane and Kimmy are delivering Lesbian Sexy Moment #7 because let’s not waste any time we’re all gonna die one day and what’s a little bumper.

Honestly pleased to have any sex scene at all, but it would’ve been a much richer story if Shane’s sex scene this episode had been with a former flame who’d been invited to the wedding — a narrative could’ve been quickly concocted to justify the invitation of someone like Molly or Quiara or Ivy or even Nikki Stevens (who perhaps is currently starring in Tina’s show Murdoch Mysteries).

Other sex scenes that could’ve happened this episode with already-present characters to provide heat as well as story:

• Dani and Roxy
• Sophie and Finley
• Sophie and Pippa
• Alice and Tasha
• Bette and Tina, because after all it is their actual wedding day

---

Elsewhere in this expansive wedding estate, Bette Porter is improbably applying her own makeup for a special event while Tina boils beneath her silk shirt like a slab of fresh meat on a charcoal grill. Bette suggests Tina could possibly be having a hot flash but Tina disagrees!

Alice drops in to announce that the cake is here and therefore her job is done and also to receive compliments on her dress which I would like to personally echo:

But Bette and Tina remind Alice that getting alcohol was also Alice’s job and while Tina continues obsessing about the temperature, Alice and Bette lip sync for their lives about whether or not Alice was ever truly assigned alcohol and the importance of her acquiring some regardless.

Thus Alice finds Shane roaming the festival grounds while re-dressing herself and says the only solution to this alcohol problem  — despite all of us living in a world dotted with BevMos and Costcos and Hi-Los — is for Shane to call Tess. Also, Shane’s only duty for the wedding was “doing their hair” but Alice quickly observes that Shane not only did their hair but also very clearly did the wedding planner.

---

So we cut to hungover Tess in her shades with her Gatorade, creeping into the Dana Fairbanks Memorial Tavern like a celebrity on a downward spiral.

Finley bops in and announces that she’s moved into a roach-infested sublet with a non-functional stove, which inspires Tess to realize she’s gotta get all new furniture for her apartment, a realization which sends her into an immediate tizzy.

Finley embraces Tess and is like fuck shane and Tess is like you don’t have to say that, I know that you love her and Finley is like no i love you and then ring-a-ling it’s Shane on the horn!

---

Back at Bette and Tina: Endgame Infinity War, Dani and Sophie are looking absolutely smashing and Sophie questions Dani’s choice to “ghost” Dre following Dre’s Love Confession, which’s confusing ’cause Dre was the one who told Dani they wanted to call it off? Was that just a move or am I simply failing to understand this order of events ’cause Dre severing the relationship on account of Dani not being ready to say “I love you” after two weeks didn’t make sense to begin with?

Anyhow! It turns out this extraordinary venue has been brought to you by the apparently wealthy family of Roxy! I’m pleased to see Roxy ’cause she’s hot and also it’s always thrilling when something from a prior episode remains relevant in a later episode. However, I’m displeased to hear the nickname “D-Bag” uttered aloud again, as linguistically it resides far too close to “douchebag” for my comfort.

We lay the seeds for the night’s chaos: Sophie’s looking to get laid and hasn’t spoken to Alice since pulling off the finale coup. Roxy’s got molly for Dani who claims molly “doesn’t work on her.” So it’s definitely gonna work on her. So excited for the love triangle between Roxy, Dani and Molly!

---

Elsewhere on Roxy’s Prodigious Family Estate, Bette’s found a solution to Tina turning into a one-woman space heater: the walk-in fridge! We then receive the reckoning with the past I’ve personally been craving — they were indeed previously married, just as I noted in last week’s recap despite it not being mentioned all season! Anyhow, I guess their first wedding was a City Hall affair. This time’s different. It’s for their friends and by “their friends” they mean “us.’

Tina: “They have been on this very long journey with us and I want them to see us happy, like this.”
Bette: “Okay, when you put it that way — okay yes. I want that for them too.”

Now that Tina’s cooled off and is ready to exit, they reach for the door only to have it break off in their hands, just like hope itself. Now they’re stuck, so

---

Back on the festival grounds, Alice is thanking G-d for Tess while I am preemptively cursing G-d for putting Tess in this episode at all if they were gonna do her so dirty! Sophie approaches Alice for a little chat and it’s pretty funny and cute — Alice is a little irked but the network loved the finale and they wanna promote Sophie! Sophie nudges her, “are we good?” and Alice nudges back and I love this for them.

Alice spots someone she knows and dashes while Sophie keeps talking until she realizes she’s simply talking to herself but it turns out someone at this party was listening, and it’s not the U.S. government:

It’s Pippa! She’s back, I’m so surprised and excited!!! Pippa tells Sophie that her goal of getting laid at a wedding is achievable but before we can get into why that goal will be achieved with Pippa specifically, Finley rolls up with a box of alcohol and an interest in getting her toaster back, although ownership of the toaster is contentious.

Sophie and Finley are low-level flirty with each other in that way you can’t help being when you’ve never been any other way for so long — but it feels here and throughout the episode like there’s more distance between them than there ought to be, and while I’m proud of Finley for moving on it feels a little too easy. I adore the Pippa/Sophie ship, but I also wish we’d gotten more time with these two and I don’t think their story is over unless of course this show is cancelled.

---

We then return to SoMiMar’s where a vat of sperm has arrived. “Can you believe that? It goes from a canister to a baby in nine months?” Micah asks.

“I cannot,” I yell at the skies. “Because with at at-home insemination there is only a 10%-15% chance of this sperm becoming an actual fetus, let alone an actual baby!”

Maribel and Micah are fantasizing about their future with the un-conceived baby they are 100% certain will be hatched out of this sperm no problem, and Micah extracts the sperm from the tank like it’s a bottle of sunscreen they just ordered from Amazon Prime. Is Maribel ovulating? Are they doing this right here right now in the dining room? 

All of that aside, the warmth and humor between these two in this scene is so delightful, especially considering what comes next.

Micah opens the insemination kit with wonder and confusion, an emotion I relate to because I am confused why they haven’t been briefed on this process prior to the kit’s arrival and gone over it with their doctor.

---

We then return to the resplendent grounds of this magical vista hosting Bette and Tina: The Fate of the Furious. Tess is smoldering around the bar dressed like Jessica Rabbit in winter. Shane apologizes for calling her in last minute. Tess says she’s happy to help. Sexual tension simmers. Tess smiles. Shane tentatively compliments her.

“You clean up nice,” Tess tells her.

“You always clean up nice,” Shane says. Okay Scrub Daddy!

Once Shane’s a safe distance away, Tess dips beneath the bar to chug a mini-bottle of wine, catching the attention of a man I can best describe as Clark Kent’s body double from The CW’s Smallville.

Tess seduces this former Abercombie & Fitch model into taking her to his car to consume a truly wild amount of cocaine. Apparently a cute Alice/Shane scene was cut from the episode and yet this scene for some reason exists! Furthermore, episode stills suggest a Finley/Dani/Roxy scene was also filmed but eliminated from the final cut! And yet!

Unfortunately I am once again finding myself praying for a merciful release from my mortal coils.

---

Back at Walk in Fridge: Escape Room Edition, I’m having flashbacks to pounding cannolli cream from a tube in the walk-in at the Macaroni Grill while waiting for the sweat in the armpits of my white oxford uniform shirt to dry. Was I ever so young??? 

Bette’s prepared Tina a small charcuterie board but Tina’s not excited about this opportunity to explore the world’s mot valuable culinary art. (Charcuterie boards.) Bette’s posi vibes are bringing Tina down! But before we can dive to deeply into that, look who’s here: it’s Shane and Alice!

But when Shane and Alice try to open the door, they somehow break the outside door handle? This is not how walk-in freezer handles work but regardless, they disregard the idea to break the window with a mallet, like Thor of Asgard or simply a handy dyke would’ve done in a heartbeat, and instead they’re gonna call this season’s hottest number: 911.

“Fire department” is absolutely not the correct fix here and there’s a 0% chance the fire department would intervene in this case, but am allowing it because Tasha is in the fire department.

Meanwhile, Tina’s at a breaking point with The New Bette Porter — and what ensues feels so real and touching:

Tina: “I just hate your positivity! Don’t be so positive right now.”
Bette: “Do you want me to say it’s a disaster? Of course it’s a disaster. We’re stuck in a fridge on our wedding day. But you know what I’m not gonna do? I’m not gonna start yelling about it.”
Tina: “Well why not? That would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do!”
Bette: “Because I have tried really hard to quiet those parts of me so I wouldn’t hurt you and I am afraid that if I let them out and then I won’t be able to shut them back inside.”

Tina assures Bette that just like all of us at home, she loves the part of Bette that yells at motorists and board members and senators and Jenny Schecter! She loves the part of Bette who famously screams her very own name (Tina) into the void! Because she loves every part of Bette!

So, when the fire department delivers a vague timeline on when they can make it to the Resplendent Wedding Venue, Bette reaches deep inside herself and lets it rip:

Bette: ALICE! CALL TASHA RIGHT NOW AND GET US THE FUCK OUT OF HERE BECAUSE I AM GOING TO MARRY THE LOVE OF MY LIFE TODAY IF IT’S THE LAST FUCKING THING I DO!

Tina is smitten. I tear up. I love this for everyone involved, but especially me because I also want Alice to call Tasha right now! Except for different reasons. (So they can be together forever)

---

To L And Back: Generation Q Podcast 309: When a Fire Starts to Burn

A strong breeze has blown into Los Angeles this week and with it, the return of Bette and Tina! Coincidentally, it also brought the return of our enjoyment of this television program. This episode was delightful! It’s nearly the end of the season so many chickens must come home to roost!

Angie’s moms are back to get her out of bed and performing at her creative writing class reading and discover the relationship that has her sulking unshowered in bed. Shane and Tess are fighting over the second bar, but in a new and more final way. Finley is helping Carrie recover from her (obnoxious, to us) heart attack. And of course, Alice’s movie meltdown has gotten her cancelled again, with one of our season-long prayers answered as a result!! (I never know if I’m spoiling an episode in this post, so I WON’T.)

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SHOW NOTES

+ Drew’s lesbian movie index goes up today! Check it out!
+ If you care, here’s more on James Corden beefing with the Balthazar guy
+ Riese’s recap for 309

---

Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is…

Group: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. We did it great.

Riese: Did we?

Drew: The episode is better. We’re thriving.

Riese: I got distracted.

Analyssa: I thought it was kind of impressive that you got distracted during that.

Riese: Really? But I was still trying.

Analyssa: While you did it, I was like, “Wow, that was ballsy. I wouldn’t have done that.”

Drew: Yeah. Well, here we are with another episode of The L Word: Generation Q. It was validating to see that our opinions last week were not … We were not alone. Seems like all of you…

Riese: A lot of people really liked it.

Drew: Did they? I didn’t—

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Oh, I guess I didn’t—

Riese: On the recap, a lot of people really liked it, and I was surprised because this was when I really lost it, was last week.

Analyssa: I read some of the comments on your recaps. There’s always way too many for me to keep up with, but also on our podcast episode post all the comments were saying that we were right, so you could hang out in there sometimes. Yeah.

Drew: That’s all I pay attention to.

Analyssa: But I was surprised to see that in your recap.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, no one said I was wrong. For their personal enjoyment, they liked it, which surprised me.

Drew: Sure. And I love that.

Riese: But also I think it might just be like if you’re a big fan of Finley, obviously you’d be a big fan of that episode.

Drew: This is episode 309, Quiet Before the Storm, and it is written by Melody Derloshon, who we’ve talked about many times. And it’s directed by Kate Moennig, who I think we know.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We know Kate.

Riese: We’ve heard of Kate. Yeah. This is her first directing job.

Analyssa: That’s fun. Cool.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: I love when a cast member gets to direct an episode.

Riese: And I think Leisha Hailey is directing the finale,

Analyssa: Oh, my God. That’s so exciting.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Fun.

Analyssa: I love that.

Drew: I would love post-Gen Q if Leisha Haley directed movies. I can see her filling like a Clea DuVall kind of gap.

Analyssa: My reference point was going to be like, oh, kind of like Carrie Brownstein did music, and then now is directing. The same kind of thing with Leisha Haley.

Drew: Yeah. I was like, why do Carrie Brownstein and Leisha Haley have a connection? And I realized that it’s actually just me in my own little world because I wrote a pilot with a character based on Carrie Brownstein, and was like, “Leisha Haley would be perfect for this.”

Analyssa: That’s why they’re connected. Through your pilot.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Well, I think that Kate did a great job.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I agree.

Drew: This was a solid episode.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: This episode was a relief to me.

Drew: I think I only shouted at the TV in frustration three or four times.

Analyssa: This felt like a normal amount of being like urgh with a plotline.

Riese: Yeah. It felt like the original series where there’s stuff where I’m like ugh but in general, I’m like, this follows the rules of an episode of television.

Analyssa: Everything we’ve agreed upon entering this relationship is intact.

Riese: Yes, it is being fulfilled. Yeah.

Drew: Also, a lot of the stuff that annoyed me, not all of it, but there were certain things that annoyed me but felt true to the characters. Right? Where I was like, “This sucks.” But also, “Tina would fucking do this.”

Analyssa: Right. We’ve talked about that in some episodes, where it’s the difference between being annoyed with the script versus just being annoyed with the characters that you’re watching. It’s so much more pleasant to be annoyed with the characters that you’re watching, and not remember that there’s a script behind them.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Should we get into it?

Riese: Yeah. The beginning of the episode did in fact… Was the most upsetting part of the episode for me. I just, “What the fuck?”

Drew: Okay. One thing I want to say before we get into that is that the previously on—

Analyssa: I was going to bring this up too.

Drew: It included the part where Alice in the theater goes, “He dies at the end.” And since a reminder, they went to go see the 1960 Little Shop of Horrors I was like, anyone seeing that would know. I was like, “Are they including this because someone who uses he/him pronouns is going to die in this episode?” I was like, “Who could it be? They’re not going to kill Micah. Who could they kill? Who could they kill?” That is not why that was shown in the previously on.

Analyssa: I was just going to get mad about the previously on because it had so many scenes that I enjoyed, and then the things that were in this episode had nothing to do with the thing I enjoyed in that scene, i.e. Kehlani, Joey Lauren Adams. It’s all the setup that makes sense, but it got my little hopes up just a little bit, that some guest stars would be back, or that it would be a really Sophie centric episode, which it kind of was, but I was like, “I’ve been tricked.”

Riese: Speaking of trickery.

Drew: Yeah. The opening is very annoying. It is a serious medical drama. And then it’s like, “Oh, it’s actually Grey’s Anatomy and—”

Riese: Carrie and Misty are watching it?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Oh. Well, yeah. But they say it is.

Riese: But they say it is.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Right. Yeah. I have to get that out because it bothered me both times it was brought up. It’s not Grey’s Anatomy.

Drew: Sure, I believe you.

Analyssa: Okay, great.

Riese: Yeah. The hallway was really empty for Grey’s Anatomy.

Analyssa: That’s not a shot from Grey’s Anatomy, number one. Number two, they’re talking… Well, it doesn’t matter. I won’t get into this, but if any other people who watched Grey’s Anatomy watch this episode and were like, “This is inconsistent. The things that they’re talking about.” Find me.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I have thoughts.

Drew: I think as someone who watched the first few seasons of Grey’s Anatomy when they aired, and then moved on with my life, I don’t have strong feelings. I was like, “Obviously they’re not going to get the rights to Grey’s Anatomy, so I understand.” but I understand why you are — as a Grey’s Anatomy fan, are like, “This is wrong.”

Riese: Yeah. I just don’t understand why they did this. Why did they end with Finley doing the chest compressions, and being in a panic? That’s supposed to arouse emotions within us that something terrible is happening. But then we saw right away, in the next dawn, that Carrie was alive, and then we opened with Carrie being more than okay.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t love it. And I saw someone comment that Rosie O’Donnell’s talked a lot about having a heart attack, and heart health, and things like that. And it is one of those things where it’s this excuse that’s used—

Riese: Yeah. It doesn’t really make sense.

Drew: —for being like, Jamie really wanted to play a cis character where you’re like, “Okay, but one, maybe this is why there shouldn’t be only one trans actor or only one fat actor.” These things. But then also, I guarantee there are actors who have requested things for their characters, and that hasn’t been listened to.

Riese: Kate Moennig requested that she talk about Jenny, and they were like, “Nope.”

Drew: It still is a choice that’s made. And it’s not legend and carrying Gen Q Rosie O’Donnell’s responsibility — carrying wasn’t a pun, but I realize it was — responsibility to think about the nuances of queer representation, and fat representation, and these things. There’s a writer’s room for that. There are producers for that. I get it, but that’s not a good enough explanation for me.

Riese: No, I don’t think so. I mean, Rosie’s done a lot of things in her life that aren’t part of Carrie’s character. I mean, heart attacks happen on TV all the time, but I think the way it was set up— I mean, Gigi’s car crash, to a certain extent, where it’s this cliffhanger type thing where we’re supposed to feel stressed about it, but then we’re not. It’s just like, I don’t get it. It’s like an artificial—

Drew: Right. It’s both cheap narratively, and it also just really sucks. Because Rosie O’Donnell should not be the fattest actor on the show three seasons in, first of all. And then the way that the episode continues, as we’ve said, Rosie O’Donnell is always a pleasure to watch, and I love Carrie and Misty together, and Carrie and Finley’s chosen family relationship is so lovely.
But it just really fucking sucks, the way that this episode, and I guess we’ll keep coming back to this, but it’s just all about how Carrie needs to diet and exercise. The way Finley is acting is like a judge on The Biggest Loser from 2006 or whatever.

Riese: Right. But they don’t say anything about her size, or her weight. I think they felt like it was okay because of that. It’s not focused on her, which is something. At least no one was like, “You need to lose weight.” Or something. It was focused on her health or whatever. There’s that.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which is also accurate. She doesn’t need to lose weight! I think putting that burden on our only fat character is still really irritating. People of all sizes have heart attacks.

Drew: Yeah. Far more fun is that Angie in a post breakup haze, is reading The Price of Salt, and watching Four-Faced Liar, which is—

Riese: Oh, that’s what she was watching.

Drew: Marja-Lewis Ryan’s movie that she wrote and starred in, that’s not available to stream. The day this podcast comes out, my updated lesbian movie list will be out, and it’s not available anywhere. Which I’m surprised that… I don’t know.

Analyssa: Angie did-

Drew: Angie downloaded it, torrented Four-Faced Liar, which there are far better movies that you could torrent, Angie.

Analyssa: Well, they did Marja’s play in Angie’s High School. They have a direct line coming in. They have a connection to the playwright.

Riese: Yeah. Maybe she got, maybe Marja, to send her the file.

Drew: I’m sure.

Riese: Those are the perks.

Analyssa: Marja loved the high school production. That got done so much that she-

Riese: Yeah, that she stayed in touch with Angie ever since.

Drew: That’s really beautiful.

Riese: But most importantly, she’s wearing her Sisterhood Is Powerful t-shirt.

Drew: Yes.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And if we were wondering, “When are we going to see that again?” Luckily, we’re seeing it in a moment of sadness, and depression, and despair.

Drew: Sometimes being powerful means-

Riese: Being sad?

Drew: Taking time to be sad, yeah.

Riese: Yeah, taking time for yourself. And you know what a danger is to dating your teacher? Not wanting to go to class.

Analyssa: Angie is in a post breakup slump. Her roommate is trying to rally her out of bed, and out of the room, and then a much stronger-

Riese: Surprise!

Analyssa: A much stronger force arrives.

Riese:
It’s Bette and Tina!

Drew: Yeah. And Bette immediately starts cleaning up, which is lovely and funny. And also what I would do if I was in that room. It was funny. I was very happy to see them.

Riese: Yeah. I was like, “Oh, good!”

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: I was like, “Am I betraying myself here?” But they were cute, and we haven’t really seen them get to be mothers to Angie in a way where that’s not about them. It was interesting to actually finally see them focused on her, but they also obviously are concerned about her wellbeing because she seems unwell. And she is unwell, because she had sex with a terrible person.

Drew: We’ve all been there.

Riese: Anyway, they’re going to go to her reading tonight.

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: And so am I.

Analyssa: And so are we all.

Riese: All so we all are. Yes. Everyone loves a student reading. They’re always very well attended. Big event.

Analyssa: They’re also always in these-

Riese: Always on the website.

Analyssa: Huge auditoriums.

Riese: Yeah, huge auditorium. Yeah, they were really expecting a big crowd for that.

Drew: Speaking of rough days, Shane wakes up naked, which could be good, except that Tess is already getting dressed, and getting ready to leave. It feels very much like they are hooking up and still living together. But I mean, maybe they’re not hooking up. Are they just living together?

Riese: I don’t know if they were hooking up or not. I thought maybe that was just how Shane slept.

Drew: Does Shane just sleep naked?

Analyssa: I thought they were hooking up.

Drew: I thought they were hooking up.

Riese: Oh, really?

Drew: I feel like if you’re not hooking up you’re not going to share a bed and be naked.

Analyssa: Also they have a big house.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: They could…

Riese: Could sleep somewhere else?

Analyssa: Sleep somewhere else, yeah.

Drew: Yeah. I think they’re hooking up, but clearly, there is still tension, and Shane is like, “What if we talk to someone?”

Riese: Shane suggests couples therapy.

Drew: Yeah, and Tess says no, which my big complaint about this episode with them, is it turned it into a thing where Tess becomes more at fault in the split, when that’s not really fair given … I don’t know. It just is this thing where it’s like, “Well, Tess is drinking again, and being erratic, and doing this and this.” And it’s like, “Shane needs to grow.” Shane has fucked up, and sucks, and the show doesn’t quite seem to know who it wants us to be. It doesn’t feel complicated. It just feels like now it’s really… I don’t know.

Riese: Well, I felt that it was definitely Tess’s fault.

Drew: Well, yeah. No, I know. But that’s what I’m saying is that-

Riese: If that’s what the show was feeding me, I ate that.

Drew: Right.

Riese: I ate every bite.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: And also, Tess turning down therapy, which is something that-

Drew: Yeah, makes no sense.

Riese: If Shane asked me to go to couple’s therapy, I’d be like, “We don’t even know each other, but if this is what it takes to get you into a therapist’s office, absolutely, let’s do it.”

Analyssa: But this had to follow the time honored tradition of The L Word: Gen Q‘s insistence on one character introducing an idea. Another character saying, “Okay, I’m on board for this idea.” And the first character reacting as though that’s the craziest thing anyone has ever said in their life. They love doing that. Okay.

Riese: Anyway, Tess has to go meet with the tile guy at the second bar, which I honestly hoped had just fallen into the sea. I wanted it to just go away. I didn’t want to ever hear about the second bar again.

Drew: That may happen. Meanwhile, Alice is showing Sophie pictures of her cat, Piddles Jr., PJ, which I was like, “Okay, PJ’s a very cute name.”

Analyssa: PJ’s really sweet.

Riese: Later, she calls him little PP. We can go in so many directions with this.

Drew: And they’re getting ready for the season finale of The Alice Show ending with Rachel Maddow.

Riese: I know. And for a moment, for a brief shimmering moment, I was like, “Oh, my God.”

Analyssa: I put all caps in my notes. I was so excited. And then I realized like, “Oh, okay.”

Riese: I was like, “People are going to flip out!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, even though the video of Alice in the movie theater went viral several episodes ago, it is now going viral again in a new way, because James Cordon tweeted it.

Analyssa: They’ve brought back Alice’s random beef with James Cordon.

Riese: Right. Of all the things to remember to bring back around, it was her beef with James Cordon, who, I think probably since this episode was filmed, edited, and produced and wrapped, has had his own entitlement virality.

Analyssa: But that’s really funny, actually. They didn’t mean for this, but it layers in a thing where the idea in my head is that James Cordon tweeted this so that people will stop paying attention to the fact that he’s still beefing with the head chef at Balthazar. He was like, “Okay, I finally have an idea. Something that will get them off of me.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And then it causes a whole Alice is getting canceled storyline that culminates with someone bringing up Darryl Brewer, which we all remember who Darryl Brewer is, because our lives are very tied into The L Word.

Analyssa: I simply didn’t.

Drew: Oh, you didn’t? Oh, I love that for you.

Analyssa: They said that name, and I said, “Who is that?”

Drew: I’m so happy for you.

Analyssa: And then when she started the next thing and was like, “So, there was this guy.” I was like, “Okay. It’s all coming back to me now.” But just the name? No, that did nothing for me.

Riese: But when Sophie said the name, and Alice was like… I was like…

Drew: When this first started, I went, “Oh, God. They’re doing a canceled storyline.” And I just was like, “There’s no way this is going to be done well.” Even Tàr, which I think is a very good movie in so many ways, anything to do with cancel culture just falls so flat there. And I did not trust these writers. I thought it worked.

Riese: I thought it worked, too.

Drew: I thought it was really good. We’ll get into some more details later, but I was like, “They’ve handled this well.”

Riese: And also, when I saw the episode description, it was like, “Alice has to pay for something she did in her past.” Or whatever. And I saw the preview with Sophie being like, “I don’t know how to fix this.” Gretchen was like, “What do you think it is?” And I was like, “I think it’s going to be Daryl Brewer.” Because that was such a big…

Analyssa: Your mind amazes me.

Riese: But one could argue, it could have more important things in it than this.

Drew: Then we go to the trail with Carrie and Misty and Finley.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: It was very nice out.

Analyssa: Because the whole plot is Carrie, per doctor’s orders, has to be able to walk a quarter mile on an incline. There’s a weird subplot here where Finley’s like, “And if you do it, you can bone Misty.” Which I was like, “Weird thing to say to your mom, but okay.”

Riese: And Misty’s part of that, too. Misty’s also like, “Then we can-”

Analyssa: Yeah, but Misty and Carrie get in on it, and then I feel okay about it. It’s just when Finley is like, “The two of you could fuck.”

Drew: Well, and then Carrie talks to Misty, and is like, “I-”

Riese: I’m not ready, obviously.

Drew: “I’m not ready. I want to take it slow.” And it’s very sweet. And Misty is like, “Well, I’m really good at it. Whenever you’re ready.” And that was a great response.

Analyssa: They’re fun.

Drew: I loved it. I loved it. I loved that part.

Riese: It was cute. I also just loved them being outdoors. It was very beautiful to see our great city rolling before us.

Analyssa: Which is currently under so much rain.

Riese: Yes.

Drew: Yeah. Well…

Riese: Barry is on the phone, right?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: With Alice. And they’re very upset, and they want her to apologize, and Sophie is trying so hard to manage the situation appropriately, and I think doing a really good job.

Analyssa: I really liked this for Sophie in this episode, watching her-

Riese: Just do her shit, yeah.

Analyssa: Just do good at her job.

Drew: I love … I mean, not to be a Capricorn, but it’s so nice to get stories in the workplace that aren’t people boning in the workplace. It’s possible to have storylines with these characters that isn’t someone cheating, or someone having sex they shouldn’t have. Not that those things aren’t fun, but there are other things you can do.

Riese: Right. And he wants her to apologize, and Sophie’s like, “Absolutely.” She feels remorse, she will do it. And Alice is like, “No, I don’t.”

Drew: And then we go to everybody’s new favorite couple, or at least mine, Dani and Dre. Dani’s lying in Dre’s lap while Dre writes a song, and it’s very cute. And then they start making out. And I went, “What’s going to interrupt it? What’s going to interrupt it?” And very quickly, Dre says, “I love you.” And then is like, “I mean, I love what you’re doing.” And there is a moment, and then Sophie calls, and Dani’s like, “I have to get this!” And it’s like, “Oh, thanks for saving me.”

Analyssa: Double interruption.

Drew: Yeah, double interruption.

Riese: Why won’t anyone have sex on this show?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: What is happening?

Analyssa: Why is this show forcing me to be a pervert, and be like, “Everybody should be having sex more”?

Riese: Yeah. What is going on?

Analyssa: It’s so weird. It’s very bizarre.

Riese: I’m just confused. And I would like to speak to the head of Paramount Networks, personally.

Drew: Yeah, I don’t know. It’s a bummer. I would be very curious to know what led to that.

Riese: Intimacy coordinators aren’t that expensive, are they?

Drew: No, I don’t think so. Can you imagine if that’s what it is? Then we go to Angie who’s talking to Bella, and nervous that her parents will find out about Hendrix. And then-

Riese: You win!

Drew: I get to win.

Analyssa: You win!

Drew: Bella tells Angie that she’s the best person she knows, and that she’s a total catch, and Bella’s face is saying that I was right, and there is something here between these two. And I don’t know when it’s going to come about, but it sure is happening.

Riese: Yeah. Bella has feelings.

Drew: Bella has big, big feelings.

Riese: And Angie is oblivious.

Drew: Oblivious.

Analyssa: No idea.

Riese: And I really thought, “Oh, good.” I thought it was going to happen this episode, and I was excited.

Drew: It really sucks where this ends, because I really thought it was going to end with getting rid of Hendrix. Hendricks is gone out of my life, but nope. They said, “Yeah, we only have one episode left. But you know what we want to do? We want to keep Hendrix around.” More on that later.

Riese: Oh, and then Bella, they call Bella to go sit with Bette and Tina.

Analyssa: Where they all proceed to talk through every single other person’s reading. No one else is getting to do their reading in peace.

Riese: No. This is before Shane comes, right?

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Speaking of things that people should apologize for, I tried. Sophie brings Dani in as a fixer, and it’s like Dani’s written hundreds of public apologies, which is like, “Sure has.”

Riese: She got somebody to say the right thing about their own child dying of an opioid overdose, even though his company manufactured the opioids. Yeah. You can do that. You can apologize for outing a basketball player.

Drew: I love Dani season three, and I sometimes forget how bad things were in season one.

Riese: Well, now she’s using her powers for good.

Drew: I guess so.

Riese: If Alice would only let her use her powers for good.

Drew: I love change. But Alice, yeah, is like, “I want to double down.” Kimmel would double down. And Sophie’s like, “Kimmel’s not a queer woman.” And then Alice is like, “You don’t understand how hard things were back then, and how hard it was being gay back then.” Basically, if you didn’t watch the original series or didn’t remember it in detail, there’s a sort of recap of what happened with Darryl Brewer.

Riese: She went to this secret Hollywood party, which by the way, she signed an NDA to go into, with her girlfriend who was in the Army and under investigation, under Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, and saw this guy who was a famous athlete. She didn’t know anything about sports. And filmed him with her flip phone that she was supposed to surrender at the door. And then the next day, he said something homophobic about this other guy who had come out in sports, and it was honestly the most absurd. It was on our favorite news channel, Now News or whatever.

And it was an inane quote. It was something like, “I don’t want those fucking gays in my locker room. And I let that be known.” Or whatever the fuck it was that he said. And then Alice made a video where she showed the video she took, again, at a party where she signed an NDA. And also, I re-watched this piece, and there’s people in the background of the video, too. It was supposed to be a secret Hollywood … And she is there with a girl who, if her girlfriend had been in the video, would’ve been in huge trouble.

And she did this. She decided to post the video outing him because he had said something homophobic. And the thing is that, at the time, no one thought it was a good idea either. She’s talking about back then, and out of curiosity, I was like, “Let me see what I wrote about it in my recap that I wrote in 2008.” And at that time, I thought it was a terrible idea. This was not something that anyone thought was a good idea.

Drew: Totally. What I liked about it was the idea of—

Riese:
I mean, they’re doing an Ellen thing.

Drew: Sure. But I liked it also because it felt like something that Alice, given her… I mean, the one thing that I wish had happened is that they’d addressed race at all. Because obviously, one, it’s more interesting and more nuanced, and also, it is what would be on Twitter. Specifically, she didn’t just out someone, she outed a black man.

Riese: A black man? Yeah.

Drew: And I wish that that was dealt with at all.

Riese: Right. Especially as she’s this rich white woman lecturing two women of color about how they should understand her oppression in 2008.

Drew: Yeah. It just felt very true to … How old’s Alice supposed to be?

Riese: 45, or something, probably.

Drew: Yeah, a cis white 45 year old lesbian, where it’s like, yeah, things were a lot worse for her at that time. And there’s probably a level of righteousness that she feels, even if she doesn’t get it, and I did appreciate that. But I wish, one, that they’d addressed race, and two, when Alice is like, “Him saying fag on TV.” And then Dani being like, “We actually don’t say fag anymore.” Was very annoying, and felt like such … There was actually sort of a realism to this scene in a way that I found really interesting, and that felt like not even a good joke, but just something in there. And was like, “Queer people constantly say dyke and fag.” And it’s not…

Riese: Right.

Drew: It would’ve been funnier if she’d said, “Don’t say that word in your apology.” Whatever. But, but anyways…

Riese: But realistically, in this conversation, they would be talking about race.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And they would’ve been like, “Even just, this isn’t a good look for you to be doubling down on this.” And at the time she got a lot of important feedback that she disregarded, like that this man had a family. He wasn’t a politician enforcing laws. You’re not just outing this man, you’re also causing a great amount of pain to his wife and his children, and you can’t just disregard that because you’re upset that he said something homophobic.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Although, also sort of at a through-line of the original storyline is that Alice didn’t really seem to realize how famous he was.

Drew: Right.

Riese: But she gets on the news about it. Her and Tasha break up over it, but they ended up getting back together a few episodes later. Then she gets on The Talk, and she semi-outs Nikki Stevens. And this is a pattern. And then she’s barred from the set of Lez Girls. This is not the first time she’s faced consequences for this, and she still is doubling down. I just think that’s beautiful. Also, her outfit was beautiful.

Analyssa: She says to them at the end that she will apologize, which is so not what’s going to happen, but she agrees to do it.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Well, speaking of people who deserve consequences, Hendrix has started his reading, and he is talking to Angie through his other student’s readings.

Drew: Bold.

Analyssa: Just another crime on his list.

Drew: And he calls Angie immature. And it’s like, “No, she’s not immature. She is the exact mature of an 18 year old, sir.”

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Right. I was so happy they were finally showing this guy to be the creep asshole that he is. And Angie, her responses to him were incredible. Just a choice. I was like, “Finally.” Now I know, “Okay, good. The show wants us to know that this man sucks.”

Drew: Right.

Riese: And then Bella also meets Shane and is like, “Wow, you’re hot.” Which was cute.

Drew: Yeah. And also Bella is like, “I have candy in my bag.” It’s like Bette is an old lady now. How cute!”

Riese: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, also earlier when they were leaving the dorm room, Bella was like, “Wow, iconic.”

Analyssa: Yeah. Just obsessed with all the-

Riese: Right. Now she’s probably feeling even gayer than she was before, and now she really wants into the family.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: I was just about to say, the idea of being queer slash bisexual, slash a lesbian, and seeing other queer women around you who are older, and being like, “Suddenly, I’m obsessed with them.” Suddenly, I need to be around them as much as I can. Imagine if those women were Bette Porter, Tina Kenard, and Shane.

Riese: Yeah. We start to have feelings for a girl, and then those three walk into your life, and sit down next to you, and offer you candy. Wow. You’re like, “This is the life for me.”

Analyssa: I’m actually ready to marry Angie, thank you so much.

Riese: Yeah, wow.

Analyssa: I never need anyone ever again.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Bette and Shane then have a nice talk about Tess, because Bette is now very-

Riese: Enlightened.

Drew: Enlightened.

Analyssa: Evolved.

Riese: Yeah. They’ve made it to couples therapy, again.

Drew: Yes, which Shane makes a joke about, is they have good couples therapists in Toronto. And Tina says, “Yeah, universal healthcare.” I would like to say, because I have inside knowledge, that Canada’s universal healthcare does not cover eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Analyssa: Wow.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Yeah. Canada has problems, too. That’s something that I learned this summer.

Riese: Eyes, teeth, or mental health.

Drew: I mean, I would like to say that my insurance I pay for also doesn’t cover eyes, teeth, or mental health. The US is not good, but yeah.

Riese: Oh, interesting. But also, would Bette be covered under universal healthcare, just if she’s there illegally? She doesn’t even have a passport.

Drew: No, she wouldn’t be. And Tina would be-

Analyssa: Doesn’t have a visa to work there.

Drew: And Tina would be covered by her… I mean, it was a joke. It’s fine. I’m just letting you know a little knowledge because I’m dating a Canadian.

Riese: Well, that’s important. All of our Canadian listeners will appreciate that reality check.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. Tina would not have Canadian insurance. She’d have her-

Riese: Employer?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Murdoch Mysteries.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Paw Patrol.

Drew: But just little fun facts there.

Analyssa: The end of that is that Shane is kind of like, “I don’t feel like Tess and I are growing in the same direction.” Or something sort of vague, but indicating that she’s kind of over it. And then Shane sees the professor, and that becomes a thing later.

Drew: Yeah. This episode did explain why … I mean, it doesn’t explain it because it’s not … But in the sense of being like, “Why aren’t they addressing this?” They wanted to address it when Bette and Tina were around.

Riese: Right. But the way Angie said her lines should have been different I think, in the last episode. Because it would’ve been easy when Shane had asked her, “Where did you guys meet?” She’d be like, “Oh, at the gallery.” And instead of saying he wants to get back to the end of the semester, because that would be a clue, she would’ve been like, “Later, when we’re a little bit older.” Or something.

Analyssa: Or, “When we’ve been in college longer.” Or something. Yeah.

Riese: Well, yeah. Yeah. She would not mention this semester. She certainly would not bring Shane over to the car where the staff parking pass is hanging. All of those decisions.

Drew: I think they also could have had it be a thing where Bella initially had said, “That’s a little whatever.” And Angie was like, “No, I know. But it’s not like that.” It could have been more of a thread throughout this entire season where there was some acknowledgement from the show, and from the people in Angie’s life, and then Angie was making the choice. Because that’s more, I mean, I don’t know personally what it would be like to be an 18 year old girl in 2022 having sex with your male professor, but I would imagine that there would be a little bit more awareness, and a little bit more, I don’t know.

Riese: But, yeah. I think that’s perfectly fine if Angie was hiding it, but we should have seen that she was hiding it. And we didn’t see that.

Drew: Yeah. Okay. Then we go to, Dani is running her statement by Sophie, and Sophie’s like, “Yeah. Just put it more in Alice’s voice.” And Alice is oblivious, just riding around on the little bike, getting ready for the show. And then Rachel Maddow dropped out, and that Alice gets very upset, and is like, “All the queers turned on me.”

Riese: And also, Alice is in this Evel Knievel jumpsuit with… It’s one of those things where I want Alice to be better than this, because I love her. But also, this tracks with the Alice that we’ve always known, the part of her that we don’t want to see, or that I don’t want to see, because I prefer to just love her.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s also very funny because the hashtag is like, “Alice so entitled.” And this whole little insert. I was like, if this video went viral.

Riese: Right. And then she’s like, “Cancel the show.” Which is like, “You are not the only person employed by this.” The entitlement continues.

Drew: But Sophie’s like, “I’m going to produce this show.”

Riese: Yeah! And I was like, “Yes!”

Analyssa: I’m going to produce the shit out of this show.

Riese: Yeah. I was so happy. And also, her and Dani working together is cute. We return to the reading.

Drew: Yeah, where Angie’s reading some 18 year old poetry.

Riese: Yeah. I chose to sort of-

Analyssa: I didn’t really-

Riese: I didn’t want to know.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: It’s one thing when it’s Hendrix, and he’s getting published, and is an adult person. But I’m like, “This feels about, what? College freshman poetry.” I mean, no. Because your fucking poetry you wrote in high school is good. But I hate you. That’s not normal people.

Analyssa: You know when you have a kid who’s in the dance recital, and they’re not the best dancer? And so, you kind of just sit there being like, “Yeah.” That’s sort of how I listened to Angie’s writing. I was just like, “Oh, my kid’s up there doing something.”

Riese: Yeah. Well, I thought I was better. No, I didn’t. I wasn’t listening. But then it’s this really funny moment where Shane is like, “That’s her boyfriend.” And they’re like, “No, that’s her professor.” And then they all are like, “Bella?”

Analyssa: When the three of them looked at Bella, I was like, “Oh, no. She’s seeing her world crumble before her eyes.”

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: To Bella’s credit, she doesn’t do … She just-

Riese: She just goes … They’re like, “Is that her boyfriend, her ex, or professor?”

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: I didn’t say it in the last scene, but I do just want a little bit of commotion for Jennifer Beals’ big glasses.

Riese: Oh, yeah. I did love this.

Drew: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Riese: I did love those.

Analyssa: Amazing choice.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Incredible. Yeah. That’s thriving.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa:
Amazing.

Drew: And then Tina shouts at Hendrix and makes a scene, which this is one of those times where I’m like, “Sure, Tina would do this. I’m not mad at the writers.” But also, Tina? To be a little less Tina. Tina was so Tina this episode.

Analyssa: This was a big Tina episode.

Drew: This was Tina at peak Tina in so many different ways, which we’ll get to some of the later ones. But she was so Tina.

Riese: I felt like this was absurd. She would never do this, but I’ll accept it in the world of The L Word, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. I mean-

Analyssa: Right. You would never do this.

Drew: It depends how much you hate-

Analyssa: Someone would never do this.

Riese: Right. I would say those things to him, but after the show, face to face.

Drew: Yeah. Sure.

Riese: You don’t want to embarrass your daughter.

Drew: No, but Tina is Tina.

Riese: I’m glad that Tina’s back so that we can all remind ourselves how Drew feels about Tina.

Drew: It was so funny, because I used to not be as harsh on Tina as a lot of other people. I’m certainly not number one Tina hater. Other people hate Tina more than me, for sure. But this still felt Tina-y. Tina, whose favorite movie of all time is Catch 22, directed by Mike Nichols. Something I think about-

Riese: Every day?

Drew: Not every day, but definitely some days.

Riese: Yeah. Would you say at least weekly?

Drew: If I was doing banter and stuff, I’d be like, “Yeah, definitely.” But I think it’s probably monthly, which is still a lot.

Riese: That is a lot, yeah. That is a lot.

Analyssa: For a fact, that is from 2008.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Part of Sophie’s plan, Margaret Cho is hosting. She does not come back for the episode. But we-

Riese: No. Also, they allegedly are doing all of this in 45 minutes.

Drew: Which is-

Riese: And that’s fine.

Drew: Yeah. I love it. I love it. But Sophie’s like, “We have this gap in the schedule.” And Dani’s like, “Dre.”

Analyssa: “What about Dre?” Sure.

Drew: And then they’re like, “Yeah. That’s exactly what-”

Riese: Right.

Drew: Sophie’s like, “Yeah. That’s what I’ve always wanted to do, bring talent into it.” And I was like, “Yes, let’s do it!”

Riese: Yes! I felt so excited for her, because I was like, “That’s how I feel about my work.” And that’s always the dream, is that you get this big huge platform and you can bring all of your friends, who you know are really talented, but no one cares because they’re gay, onto your show.

Drew: I will say that maybe Rachel Maddow wasn’t willing to do this, but the move should have been, Rachel Maddow does a 60 minute talk with Alice, and they really get-

Riese: Yes. Yeah, Rachel Maddow interviews Alice.

Drew: Yeah. I was really hoping for that. I didn’t remember if Rachel Maddow was-

Riese: Yeah. And then Alice can’t be like, “You don’t know how it was back then.” Because Rachel would be like, “Yeah, I really do.”

Analyssa: “No, I was there.”

Riese: “I was there. While you were on talk, I was on the streets with NPR.”

Drew: We didn’t go to an annoying scene of Finley being like, “Come on, come on, come on.” And getting carried up this mountain. But I have to imagine, if you had a heart attack a week ago, going past your capacity is not a good thing to do. It’s not a healthy thing to do.

Riese: I don’t know. I’ve never known anyone who lived through a heart attack.

Analyssa: Well, great point.

Riese: I mean, I do. I’m sure I do.

Analyssa: My thing is that she only has to do a quarter of a mile, and then later they say they made her do a half a mile. It’s so rude.

Drew: It’s also just, if the whole thing is like, “It’s about health.” It’s like, “This is not healthy. This is not healthy.”

Riese: But look at the view

Analyssa: But look at the view.

Drew: The view is nice.

Analyssa: And Carrie-

Riese: Take some time to enjoy the view. That’s what-

Analyssa: Smell the roses?

Riese: Yeah. But I mean, that’s what they used to say on The View.

Drew: Also who doesn’t bring real fucking water?

Riese: Oh, yeah. Who doesn’t bring real … I like when she was like, “I like water that’s clear, like everyone else.” Finley sticking that green powder into her … That’s dirty.

Drew: That’s awful.

Riese: That’s awful. Unforgivable.

Drew: I did enjoy when Finley says to Carrie, “I love you. Not in a gay way, even though we’re both gay.” I really loved that.

Riese: Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was really funny. And she’s like, “I know what you mean.”

Analyssa: And then Misty being like, “Carrie, I’m gay for you.” That whole exchange was really funny. I would-

Riese: Do you think Kate might be a really good director?

Drew: I think. Maybe.

Analyssa: I think Kate might be a really good director. It really felt like it was, yeah, like zinging between people a lot.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Just one sidebar, I would be furious if the girl who can’t cook chicken breasts was telling me about my health and what I need eat. The audacity.

Riese: But also, I do want to say, another crime against humanity that occurred with this storyline, is that in the next dawn, they made it seem like Carrie and Finley are having a genuine fight. And they weren’t. It was resolved very quickly, as usual, because that’s their relationship, and that’s wonderful. But it seems to be resolved.

Drew: Okay. But then we have to go to Tina being Tina, and being like, “He belongs in jail!” Which another storyline would’ve loved to talk about race, but no. Tina has-

Riese: Also Tina feeling, “I’m going to get a condo right next to your dorm!” I’m like, “Oh, my God.” And Shane’s like, “Why didn’t you tell me?” And I’m like, “Yeah, Shane. Good question.” And she’s like, “You guys don’t have to know everything about me!”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, because Shane and Bette and Tina are like, “You were taken advantage of.” And Angie’s like, “No, I wasn’t.” And then calls them all hypocrites. Which points were made there.

Analyssa: So true.

Drew: But sometimes it’s a, “Do as I say, not as I do.” Situation.

Riese: Right. Or, “Learn from my mistakes.” Situation.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Which I guess required acknowledging those mistakes. Apparently no one’s ready to do.

Analyssa: But Bette’s evolved now. Maybe she is willing to do that.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, Bette’s definitely handling it the best. I mean, obviously, Tina just shouldn’t have yelled at him in front of everybody, which is obvious.

Riese: Right. That’s awful.

Drew: And it’s just set up for failure to talk to Angie about this, at this point. But then Angie runs off, and then Bella runs after her, and Angie’s like, “They totally misjudged the situation.” And Bella’s like, “No they didn’t, because he did take advantage of you. And also, I’m in love with you.” She doesn’t say that. She doesn’t say that, but that’s in her eyes. You can really feel it.

Analyssa: That is where I hope this conversation was going. I can feel that they’re building towards it, but I was like, “Let’s just skip to that part. Let’s cut to the good stuff.”

Riese: Yeah. But I appreciate it, because now we see Angie really believes that she’s the one in control here, because she made the moves. And it’s like, “No.”

Analyssa: It doesn’t really matter.

Riese: Yeah. She was like, “He has all the power.” And Angie was like, “That’s not true.” And it’s like, “Yes, it is. Look at where you were this morning. You weren’t even going to go to class. You were going to fail this-” Which, oh, by the way, you’re not going to fail this class. This man is going to give you an A if he knows what’s good for him, or he is going to leave in the three weeks before the end of the semester.

Analyssa: It was really big of Bette to never once say language to Angie, because there were a lot of F-bombs thrown around in this scene. That was a really big sign of growth.

Riese: Yeah. Yeah.

Drew: But Angie runs off.

Riese: Anyway, Angie doesn’t want to go to a nice dinner anymore.

Drew: No. She’s like, “I don’t want to seem like a kid.” When you’re 18, I do feel like one of the main things is you don’t want to be seen as a kid. So I did. I get it.

Analyssa: Yeah. And Tina and Bette’s, Tina especially, reaction are, “My kid has always been good.” Basically, and followed the rules, and this is such a wild departure from that, that I’m overreacting. That all made sense to me. And even Angie being bad at lying, I was just thinking about this. She’s never really had to lie to them a ton. I guess when she was hanging out with-

Riese: Well about smoking weed.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Her bad friend?

Analyssa: When she was hanging out with her bad friend, Jordi. But-

Drew: Who she never had sex with.

Analyssa: Right, despite being high, and also bad. Some there, a little bit, but not really. It was basically like, “Yep, I’ve been hanging out with her.” And they kind of resolved it. I feel like a lot of this is just first rebellion, which I get, as a college storyline. I just wish it didn’t involve this. What if it was some frat dude? There’s a whole bunch of other ways that her moms would be horrified by her choices while she’s growing.

Drew: They even could’ve stuck with the storyline, and not spent so much time on it. The way that some of the Bella scenes were, there could’ve been more of that, where, “This is happening.” Angie is not participating in college life as much because of this thing that’s happening. But we get to see college life. We get to see the queer people who she might be hanging out with. But-

Riese: You see her leaving the queer club early. Or we see Bella being like, “We’re having this cast party tonight. Do you want to come? You stage-handed stuff in high school.” And her being like, “Oh, I can’t.”

Drew: Bella could have revealed feelings earlier, and Angie chooses instead to go. Even if-

Analyssa: Or even said something about it being weird that she’s spending so much time with her professor, or this guy. She kind of mentions it offhandedly early, and that’s really it. And that’s before she knows that it’s Angie’s professor, right? She’s like, “I never see you, because you’re with your boy.” And that’s like, once she finds out and she clearly has an issue with it, that could have come up more.

Drew: 100%. We then go to Alice, who can’t find Piddles Jr., and at one point says, “When am I going to go back to podcasts? Because kill me.” And that did bring quite a chuckle to me.

Analyssa: Alice is unaware that podcasting is actually kind of a lucrative business these days.

Riese: Right. Not for us.

Analyssa: Not for us, specifically. But other people. Actually, a lot of talk show greats are retiring into podcasting.

Riese: Yeah. If I could just do a podcast every week, and that would be my job, wow. That would be truly living the dream. But she can’t find the cad ,and she realizes it’s because she opened the window, because the litter box smelled, because she was leaving the litter box by her bed.

Drew: Not cleaning it? And not cleaning it?

Analyssa: And not cleaning it often enough.

Riese: I mean, litter boxes always smell, in my opinion.

Analyssa: Yeah. In her bedroom is a weird place for that. She’s got a big enough house. It could be somewhere much more convenient.

Riese: Yeah. She could give the cat its own room.

Drew: Though I will say, I had this idea that if you had a cat, your house would always smell like cat, based on the people I grew up with. Since I’ve been around the gays, and met cats in queer households-

Riese: It’s not true.

Analyssa: It’s not true.

Drew: I’ve been in plenty of households where it’s just tended to, and the house does not smell bad at all.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s possible.

Drew: It is possible. I’ve never had a cat on my own, but-

Analyssa: Also let’s just all be really serious for a second, and say that Alice has a cleaning lady.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Why? Okay.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Let’s just all be honest with ourselves.

Drew: Yeah. No, Alice has never cleaned, or hasn’t cleaned her own place in two decades. Since the original L Word.

Analyssa: Alice does not change her own duvet cover. I’ll say it right now.

Drew: No. No, she doesn’t.

Riese: No. No, she doesn’t. And then we go to bar number two where Tess is continuing to pound the vodka, vodka by vodka.

Analyssa: That damn travel mug.

Riese: Yeah, in her little travel mug. But at least this time she fucking does some breath spray before Shane walks in. At least we’re acknowledging the reality of life and science, and all of those things. But Shane’s like, “I haven’t been honest with you. I don’t want a second bar.” Yeah, we know. If Tess didn’t pick up on that, oh, my God. And then Shane shares a vision.

Drew: It’s a great idea. A great idea.

Riese: A really good idea.

Analyssa: This is a really good idea. You know what it’s a better idea than? A second bar around the corner from the bar that you already own.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I laughed so hard at Shane taking a really deep breath, being like, “I haven’t been honest with you.” I was like, “Is she going to reveal that she cheated in another way?” And-

Riese: I know. That’s what I was ready for.

Analyssa: And we didn’t know? That would be amazing. And then she was like, “I’ve never thought we needed a second bar.” Seriously.

Riese: Right.

Drew: It’s actually the reveal that the reason she fucked Keilani was because she was a hairstylist, and she just misses hair, and she wants to open a salon.

Analyssa: A transference of desire.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: I wanted to hear that she had been cheating this whole time. Because I was like, “That would be scandalous.” But then it was also really nice, because we’ve never really seen Shane assert her desires, or her dreams, or her wants, literally ever. For all of her, “I’m this independent-” Girls just kind of drag her around into their lives.

Also the whole mythos of Shane and stuff. She’s always in a relationship, and usually the other person is deciding what that’s going to look like, or what Shane’s going to do. Even her hair gigs, she kind of falls into them. Alice hooks her up with it. It was the Lez Girls set, or something. It was cool to see her be like, “This is something that I’m passionate about, that I enjoy doing.” Which I don’t even know if she’s said before, besides that she’s obviously good at it. And what a great idea to have a hair salon owned by a queer icon next to a lesbian bar.

Drew: Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing.

Riese: Amazing. Perfect.

Drew: It’s so weird to have a scene where I loved, not half of the scene, but literally the way that Shane was written was great. The way Tess was written was baffling. But I was like, “Yes, this is such a moment of growth.” And I mean, there were things in this episode that were nuanced, and real, and interesting in a way that we really haven’t seen all season. But then Tess is like, “This is my dream! A second bar! I love bars more than anything!” And also-

Riese: How is that your dream, as a sober person, to have a second bar?

Analyssa: Love bars more than anything.

Riese: I just love bars!

Drew: And she’s like, “You’re so selfish.” And I’m like, “What?”

Riese: She’s like, “No one gets to be happy unless you’re happy.” And I’m like, “You haven’t cared about Shane’s happiness this whole season.”

Analyssa: Also we’ve just never seen that.

Riese: Yeah. That’s never really been true about Shane.

Analyssa: I understand if you’re like, “You’re very selfish. You think you can fuck anyone who you want to.” Okay. I’d be with you on that journey. You’re only-

Riese: Yeah. Or if you make reckless decisions, and don’t communicate about your emotions, and you go on these little benders like a child, that’s all true. But Shane doesn’t think anyone else deserves to be happy if Shane’s not happy? Hell no. That’s never been true.

Analyssa: I also don’t think Shane is-

Riese: Happy.

Analyssa: Happy very often.

Drew: It’s also just extending something that, I don’t know where … If they’re going towards a breakup, it just so easily could have started here in the sense of, instead of Tess reacting with anger, could have reacted with sadness, and could have revealed that she’s drinking again. Or could have just been … Some acknowledgement that this is growth for Shane.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: I’m so baffled by Tess as a character, and it feels like maybe the writers are just blaming it all on her relapse, which is boring. And, yeah. I don’t know.

Riese: But I mean, the whole thing about the second bar. She’s been selfish about it from the start, and kind of manipulative about it from the start. And that was before she relapsed, so I don’t really get … Then they gave her the relapse. They killed her mom. And I don’t really know what’s happening here. But then she throws the wine bottle at the wall, which is a choice.

Analyssa: It was a better choice than what I thought was going to happen, which was that she was going to pocket it in front of Shane, and they were going to have a whole fight about that. And I was like, “I don’t want to see that.” But just Ana speaking for Ana. Imagining being an alcoholic, something that’s really far away from me. She wasted a whole bottle of wine!

There’s so much of that thinking that you have to unlearn when you stop drinking. But I will never forget reading, in The Recovering, Leslie Jamison mentioning that she would remember when friends left beer in the bottom of their glasses. And that is still something that, if I’m with friends, and they leave a little bit of wine in there glass, I’m like, “What the fuck is wrong with you?” Drink it. To see someone actively relapsing, throwing a bottle of wine, I get she’s being dramatic. But I was like, “That’s a lot of wine right there.”

Riese: Yeah. But also, what the fuck are they going to do that they own real estate together? Oh, but I also like that Shane was like, “You can run Dana’s, and I can run the salon.” Because obviously Shane doesn’t want to run a bar. And also, Shane shouldn’t be around alcohol either, that much alcohol. And also, I would love for Finley to just sweep up the hair, and maybe get into shampooing. Get out of the bar, and also get away from Tess, because obviously Finley and Tess are not working.

Drew: Let’s open up two salons. Let’s have no more bars.

Riese: No more bars.

Drew: A roller rink and a salon.

Analyssa: I’d venture a hot take and say almost zero characters on The L Word need to be around alcohol.

Riese:
Right. That’s true.

Analyssa:
It’s so close to zero.

Riese: I mean, sometimes it’s nice if Bette has a little bit too much. It’s entertaining. But-

Analyssa: I like Alice swanning around with a big glass, which she does sometimes. That’s kind of fun.

Drew: We go back to Sophie getting the whole show together.

Analyssa: She’s done so much in 45 minutes.

Drew: Yeah, it’s incredible.

Riese: I know. Amazing. Incredible.

Analyssa: Amazing stuff.

Riese: Look at her go.

Drew: And-

Riese: Who’s that girl? It’s Sophie.

Drew: Dre’s there and wants to talk to Dani about the whole I Love You incident. And Dani’s like, “I’ve got to do business at the business factory right now. We cannot address the I Love You situation.”

Riese: Right. Then we go to, what is it called? Frosties?

Analyssa: Fosters Freeze.

Riese: Fosters Freeze?

Analyssa: This is a real place, and I think that I was at Fosters Freeze on the night that it was being location scouted for The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: Oh, my God.

Analyssa: Because I was there a few months ago.

Riese: Yeah?

Analyssa: Picture this, I’m at Fosters Freeze with Louis and some friends. There is a person with a fancy camera, and kind of a video camera, too, walking around Fosters Freeze. It’s also night. We were like, “This is so weird. What are they doing?” We kept being like, “Maybe they’re going to take … Maybe they’re a photographer.” It’s got all that neon stuff on it, and we could not figure it out. And I kept saying, “I feel like they’re location scouting to use this for something.” They’re at Fosters Freeze in this episode of The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: When this scene started, did you go …

Analyssa: Yes! All caps. Maybe I was at this Fosters Freeze when they were location scouting. I was shocked.

Drew: Wow.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: It was also a cool hip person who looked-

Drew: Gay?

Analyssa: Queer.

Riese: Oh, yeah.

Analyssa: And so then I was like, “Well, maybe.”

Riese: Yeah. It was either there scouting for this or Warrior Nun.

Drew: In this moment, Bette is being very level-headed, and Tina is like, “I want to murder him.”

Riese: Right. And Bette’s like, “We can’t kill another black man on this show. It’s just-”

Analyssa: We’ve reached-

Riese: We reached capacity.

Analyssa: We’ve done too many already, actually.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Tina’s like, “I feel like we’re losing Angie.” And Bette’s like, “We are, and that’s good.” And Bette Porter, the growth. It’s really incredible.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I do feel like they need to have a conversation with Angie about this, that’s gentle and patient, and understanding that she’s not going to get it. And telling her that she’s too young to understand it is the worst way.

Drew: Yeah. Maybe privately, too.

Riese: Privately, yeah. A private conversation. But I like that Bette is like, “This is what happens. They grow up.”

Drew: And then they’re being all cute and ordering food while having a little bit of PDA. Okay. A potentially toxic trait of mine is, despite being a 29 year old transsexual, there is a part of me that, in this moment, was thinking about Alice saying, “Things were so different back then. You don’t understand.” Which, in that moment it’s like, “Come on, Alice.”

But then when watching Bette and Tina be all over each other as somewhat older lesbians ordering a burger, there was a moment where I was like, “They couldn’t act like this during the original series.” And there was something … My heart was a little bit warmed.

Riese: Yeah. I still had that knee jerk that I still have from being alive then, where I was like, “Oh, my God. You can’t touch each other in public.”

Analyssa: Yeah. I had the same reaction where I was like, “Oh, my God. They’re going to get yelled at or something.”

Riese: Yeah, “What are you doing?”

Analyssa: Yeah. And then I had the moment, I was like, “Oh, yeah.”

Riese: And then it was, “Oh, right. It’s fine. We’re okay now. Everything’s fine.”

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I still-

Riese: I mean, not everything’s fine. But-

Drew: I still don’t do that with my partner in front of people. Which maybe I could, I don’t know. It’s perception of safety, and actual safety. I mean, it’s so whatever. That’s a whole conversation. But-

Riese: But, yeah. That was cute.

Drew: It was just something I clocked as we go back to Alice then looking for PJ with chicken on a string, and it’s like, “I get it. It’s karma.” But karma shouldn’t hurt cats, and then meow, cats in the tree. And that-

Riese: Well, I have two things to say about this scene. The first one is that the most entitled thing Alice does this episode is stand in the middle of the street as if she’s not going to be run over.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: She stands in the middle of the street.

Analyssa: She climbs into someone else’s bushes.

Riese: The second thing is that as soon as I saw her kitten in a tree, I thought, “She’s going to need a firefighter to get that kitten down. And I know exactly who that firefighter is going to be.”

Analyssa: I wasn’t as fast. I wasn’t-

Riese: Really? Did you guys think that?

Drew: I watched this with Elise, and from early this episode, she was like, “Tasha’s going to come back.” And I was like, “What?” And then when the cat’s missing, she was like, “Tasha’s-” Was so on it, and I kept being like, “I really think it’s going to be Taylor. I really think that, based on the previously on, Taylor’s going to be the person who comes back at the end.”

Analyssa: I kept thinking Taylor was going to pop up, too. Why do you guys have such good spidey senses for this shit?

Drew: Well, I don’t. Elise has-

Analyssa: I do not.

Riese: I mean, because I had thought before, “How could they bring Tasha back, and have her be in a job that’s not a cop, but is still, you can believe that she got to this job in her journey of not being a cop?” And it was firefighter, and also that’s really hot to be a firefighter. That works. We love this for her. But also, they did talk about her in that last episode in a way that-

Analyssa: I knew before I saw her face, but I did not know until firefighters arrived, and I was like, “Oh!”

Riese: No. I was like, “Kitten in the tree. Here we go. Here we go! here we go!” But also, she called 911, and she’s like, “It’s an emergency. I mean, it’s actually not an emergency.” But I was like, “Good. Finally someone gets to talk to 911 operator just like everyone’s been screaming to do all season.”

Drew: Yeah, that was the most unrealistic thing. Unfortunately, the next scene is Angie going to Hendrix and he’s like-

Riese:
I thought it was, at first, because they show a box, and someone putting things in the box, I thought it was their dorm room, and Bella was moving out.

Analyssa: I did, too.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: And I was like …

Analyssa: I did not think she was going back to talk to Hendrix at all. I thought she was going home, and when she says, I think one of her first lines was like, “I’m sorry.” Or something. And I was like, “Oh, she’s saying she’s sorry to Bella for exploding at her.”

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Nope.

Drew: No, she’s-

Riese: It’s that man.

Drew: It’s that man, and he’s like, “I didn’t need to get fired. I quit because I want to work on my novel.” Or whatever.

Riese: No one wants to read your novel, and also, you have two weeks left in the semester. What are you doing? You fucking moron.

Analyssa: Also, just like, what a jerk.

Riese: Yeah, what an idiot.

Analyssa: So many people would want this job. To be like, “I quit, and I’ve been thinking this job is not even right for me anyway, because I’m going to write a book.” Okay, cool.

Riese: Yeah. Your first book did so well, whatever. You can’t drop out to work full-time on your book unless you already have a book deal.

Drew: Or come from money.

Riese: Or come from money, which I don’t know. I don’t know anything about this man. All I know is that Angie, for some reason, still wants to sleep with him, and even after their toxic conversation, she still wants to bone this man.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. Because basically he says, “I’ve resigned.” And so she’s like, “Well then, let’s get after it.”

Riese: And literally not one person cheered at home for that.

Drew: I mean, again, I do think now that the show’s acknowledged it, I mean, I would rather them do other things now because this has gone on for far too long. But I at least feel slightly better in my brain and my heart, because they’ve acknowledged that it’s wrong.

Riese: Yeah. Even Shane mentioned the guys. She was like, “How old is he? Is he like 27?” That’s when she was like, “You guys are hypocrites.” And I was like, “Fair.” But also, when I was 18, and I told my mom I was dating a 27 year old, she said, “Well, you’ve always been very mature for your age.”

Drew: But that’s the thing, is that it didn’t feel-

Riese: And I thought, “You’re right. I have been. So true.”

Drew: It didn’t feel, especially given how everything blew up, thank you, Tina. It didn’t feel unrealistic that she’d still be hung up on this guy. She also lost her virginity to him, which virginity is whatever, but it is as constructed in our society, does have a thing, is a thing.

Riese: I mean, I think she’s in a bad relationship that has weird toxic dynamics, and she doesn’t know the difference yet between being in love and being in something that makes you feel crazy because it’s crazy.

Analyssa: Despite having dated someone for two years, which is right a little bit-

Drew: Right. They’re just pretending Jordy, her cisgender girlfriend of the past, doesn’t … And we’re going to go along with them, I guess.

Analyssa: Okay. Carrie and Misty are watching more Grey’s Anatomy. I just want to say, they’ve skipped like four seasons in the interim. I don’t want to go into the specifics, but the things they were talking about in the morning, and the things they’re talking about in the evening, at least as far as I remember, having watched it twice, happened about four seasons apart.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Two to four seasons apart.

Drew: Maybe they’re chaotic TV watchers, and they’re like, “No, no. Actually, let’s skip forward to my favorite season of the show.”

Analyssa: They’ve got the episodes on shuffle. She’s just picking up random-

Riese: Right. Or Carrie was picking up that Misty didn’t seem to it that much, and then was like, “Well, let’s go forward to this other season.” Maybe you’ll like that part better. And it’s like you care so deeply. It’s like giving birth in front of somebody, showing them a show you like. I just really appreciated this representation that I felt was really true to my life, my lesbian life. Going on a hike, watching Hulu, making out, and talking about our feelings as a typical weekend day.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Accurate.

Riese: Accurate.

Analyssa: Lovely.

Riese: A juice involved in there somewhere. I don’t know, some water.

Drew: Maybe even some clear water if you’re lucky.

Riese: Maybe even some clear water for as a treat.

Analyssa: Yeah. The magnitude of all that Carrie has been through this week has finally hit her, and she starts crying while they’re making out.

Drew: Yeah. Well, I think first, Misty’s hands starts to go down towards genitalia, and I don’t know why I said it like that. I’m just so used to being-

Riese: Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Gregory.

Drew: I’m so used to talking about trans people, and not knowing what language someone likes.

Analyssa: Misty’s hand started to get sexy.

Drew: Yeah, thank you.

Riese: Heavy petting below the waist.

Drew: I don’t know if any of that’s sexier.

Riese: Groin area, crotch.

Analyssa: You don’t think below the waist is sexier than genitalia?

Drew: No, heavy petting.

Riese: Heavy petting is-

Drew: It’s still sexier than-

Analyssa: I think genitalia has to be the least sexy option.

Drew: I mean, my notes just say, “Carrie moves Misty’s hand down.”

Analyssa: Gorgeous.

Drew:
Yeah, and Misty says-

Riese: Down where?

Analyssa: Well, exactly.

Riese: Towards what?

Analyssa: Towards what, Drew?

Drew: Genitalia. Misty says, “Are you sure?”

Riese: Genitalia.

Drew: And Carrie says yes, and then starts to cry. And I also appreciated that representation of, sometimes sex is vulnerable, and opens some things up, and you’ve been needing to have a cry, and it happens when you’re feeling safe with someone and having some sex. But then, yeah, Carrie talks about it all hitting her, and then they keep making out, and they keep going.

Analyssa: And Misty says neither of them are going anywhere, which is very sweet.

Riese: Yeah. That was really nice.

Drew: I love it.

Riese: And they start hooking up, and then the camera goes away, and that’s fine. I know Rosie didn’t want to do a sex scene, and so I’ll allow it.

Drew: It’s so fine. It is, once again, why there should be more butch characters. There should be more fat characters.

Riese: Older characters.

Drew: Yeah. It’s the thing where you’re like, it’s fine that Micah and Maribel are boring, and want to go to sleep by 9:00 PM or whatever. That’s totally fine for those characters. It’s just questionable when it’s like, why is your trans character, and why is your disabled character the ones that are boring? In this case it’s fine. I mean this season, we don’t see anyone have sex, so it’s really not even that different. But it’s like we all know, we’ve said it.

Analyssa: Speaking of not going anywhere.

Riese: We go to Bette and Tina, outside of Frosty’s, and Tina’s like, “What if we just got married and had a party for our friends?” And I just want to say that they already did get married, and I don’t understand again, are we supposed to … Because if you’ve already been married, isn’t the conversation that you would start about wanting to get married, maybe acknowledge that you’re being remarried?

Drew: Will we get remarried?

Riese: Remarried, because they’ve already been divorced. I went back and I checked, and this is not something we made up in our heads. They got divorced. They were married.

Drew: Yeah. I do know people who have broken up after long periods of time, and had a life together, and referred to it as a divorce, even if it wasn’t an official divorce.

Riese: I think they were engaged at the end of season six though, weren’t they?

Drew: Yeah, that’s true. And also they’re normies.

Riese: Yeah, absolutely. And they had a kid, they would’ve gotten married. They were married.

Drew: They would’ve gotten married the moment it was legal.

Riese: Yeah. They would’ve gotten married in 2015, I guess.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Oh, Riese, remember when we were at that pride right after gay marriage got legalized in San Francisco?

Riese: Yeah. That was so sweet.

Analyssa: And everyone was so happy.

Riese: Everyone was so happy.

Analyssa: A lot of people there probably got married, really.

Riese: Yeah. I mean, I got engaged, I think if maybe a week later. And as you can see, it worked out.

Drew: Gay people shouldn’t get married?

Analyssa: This just in …

Riese: But, anyway-

Drew: Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Riese: Right. Tina turns around, and Bette already has a ring. She’s like, “This is what I was going to do at dinner.” And that checks out, and that’s cute. And I may have teared up against my will.

Drew: I was happy for them. I mean, it’s so funny how Bette went from being a character who I cared so much about, to, “I don’t really care about Bette Porter anymore, but I’m happy for them.” I truly feel like they feel like relatives of mine, where I’m just like, “We are never going to see eye to eye on a lot of things, and you’re doing your own little thing off to the side, and I wish you the best.” But there’s still a love there, and Godspeed.

Analyssa: Yeah. I feel the way about them as I do about some of my high school teachers, who I was deeply obsessed with in a, can’t really explain, kind of way. And now that I’m an adult, I can explain some of it, but I’m also just happy for them. I don’t feel that intensely about them, but I did once, and so I always want them to be happy, and I beam when they beam.

Riese: I mean, I loved them in this episode, and I thought it was nice that it showed you don’t have to have a couple be breaking up to have them have conflicts. And this was pretty sweet. And then, kindly, Bette had arranged for fireworks to go off in the sky at this exact moment.

Analyssa: If they’re where I think they are, that just means the Dodgers just won a game.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Drew: That part checked out to me. There are always just random fireworks going off in LA.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Sometimes it times out. Then we go to Dre singing, and a little montage, and you know what? Dani’s instincts off of that one karaoke performance were correct, because Dre is actually quite good.

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Did I feel as though Dre’s song was written by the house band?

Analyssa: Yes.

Riese: Because it had the same vibes as a lot of the music that’s been in. I wonder if that was really Carmen singing.

Analyssa: They have backup singers, which is just-

Riese: Right. Yeah, they do have-

Analyssa: There’s so much that they’ve done in-

Riese: They have a drummer.

Analyssa: They’ve done so much in 45 minutes.

Riese: I know. Right. Also, I think we’re meant to believe this is the song that Dre was writing this morning, right?

Analyssa: Yes, correct.

Riese: And now they’re ready to perform in an Alice show?

Analyssa: Yes. Absolutely.

Riese: Amazing. Honestly, a prodigy, and they deserve all the fame and wealth in the world. And Sophie and Dani are so proud of themselves, and that’s cute.

Drew: And then Finley hears Misty and Carrie fucking, and starts to look for apartments, which is the right move.

Riese: No, it’s not. It’s a terrible move.

Drew: Oh, I guess it’s not a right move financially, but did-

Riese: She’s poor.

Analyssa: She owes-

Riese: She wants to go back to school.

Analyssa: She insists-

Riese: She wants to pay Alice back for rehab.

Analyssa: She insists that she owes Alice money for rehab.

Riese: You have a parental figure who’s like, “You can stay and live in my wonderful beautiful house for free, indefinitely.” If you were going back to school-

Drew: But did Carrie say that?

Riese: I mean, I think it’s implied.

Drew: Okay. I guess I was thinking more of-

Riese: That Carrie might want her own space?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Yeah, that’s fair.

Drew: That Finley’s kind of imposing. But I mean, I’ve looked at apartments. It’s not great out there, let me tell you.

Riese: Right. But I’m sure that Googling LA apartments is definitely your first step in finding one.

Drew: I think Finley needs to go on one of those Facebook groups that’s queer housing, and find a house with three roommates, and do that.

Riese: Right. Yeah. I’m just like, “You just bought a car. You have a whole room.”

Drew: Oh, yeah. That, I don’t know how to-

Riese: You know what I mean?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: But I have a feeling that they’re going to have Finley getting her own apartment next. Maybe I just want her to live with Carrie because I like their-

Drew: Well, it’s fun. Yeah, for sure.

Riese: Yeah. I love the chosen family vibes.

Analyssa: We get a classic end of an L Word episode montage for a minute, which is Angie and Hendrix have done it, great.

Riese: Oh, that was them getting redressed?

Analyssa: Yeah, I think so.

Riese: I thought she was watching him get undressed, and I was so upset.

Drew: No, I thought it was redressed.

Analyssa: No, I think it’s redressed. Tess is drinking at Dana’s and dancing dance sound by herself.

Riese: Dancing?

Drew: Looks like this.

Riese: She’s like, “I love bars.”

Drew: Yeah. Looks like the scene that makes no sense from euphoria when it was very stylized, alone in the bar, dancing.

Riese: Right. She’s done this before.

Analyssa:
Yes, this exact thing.

Drew: Oh, I don’t remember that.

Riese: I don’t know if she was alone. I think patrons were there, but it was where she was drunk and dancing, wearing-

Analyssa: And it was an overhead shot, I feel like it. It was so similar.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Were we supposed to take cinematic parallels from that? I don’t know what they were-

Riese: The parallel is that they’re doing the same bad storyline twice, I guess. Shane’s packing.

Drew: Oh, I thought Shane was smelling Tess’s clothes. Or she’s smelling her own clothes?

Riese: Or she’s packing Tess’s clothes.

Analyssa: I think she’s packing Tess’s clothes up, and smelling the dress remorsefully.

Drew: Right.

Riese: Right. Okay.

Analyssa: Sure. And then we get two more scenes, which is post show Dre is packing their stuff out of Dani’s apartment, and is like, “I have to leave, because what I said this morning is true.” And their-

Riese: I’m falling for you.

Analyssa: Their whole agreement has been that they’re going to do something casual. Dre’s basically like, “If you don’t feel the same, I got to get out of here so that I don’t get hurt.”

Drew: I do think sometimes you just got to give people time. People have walls. Clearly Dani’s fault. I get it. People are so concerned with, I don’t know. Watching it with Elise, she was like, “I was glad that you waited and let me say I love you first, or else I probably would’ve gotten freaked out.” It became a joke where I was waiting, and she knew I was waiting.

Riese: Would you be like, “I really like you so much.” Before hanging up the phone?

Drew: Yeah. It was like whatever, and then when Elise said I love you for the first time, I said, “I love you too. I win!” I shouted, “I win.” I think I said I love you too before I said I win.

Riese: Do you guys usually say it first? Or not first?

Drew: That was the first time I’d ever not said it first. Yeah. I always say it first. And this is a fun fact, a podcast exclusive. I don’t think Elise would care of me saying this. She said it to me when we were making Stir Fry, and I went, “You know, you said it to me when we were making stir fry.” And she was like, “Yeah, so?” I was like, “I don’t know, stir fry’s kind of a thing in the lesbian community because of Bette and Tina having sex with the-” And she was like, “I take it back.” No, she didn’t say that. But-

Analyssa: She’s like, “I want off. Thank you.”

Riese: She’s like, “Just kidding, actually.”

Drew: Love feeding.

Riese: Yeah. Anyway, I think Dre’s being stupid. I think that-

Drew: But I think Dani does love them, and is going to say I love you.

Riese: Yeah, I mean, also, it’s been two weeks.

Drew: Calm down. Yeah.

Riese: Yeah. Calm down. They’re the one who has a sort of girlfriend back in Ohio. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: Yeah. And also, this conversation could just be … I mean this is The L Word, and this is the kind of stuff I like being mad about.

Drew: Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Analyssa: And this defies human behavior, but in a fun way. They could have just been like, “I said something kind of crazy. You don’t have to say that back, but I’m very in this actually. I know we said it was going to be casual. It’s not.” That’s really all the conversation needs to be. But I love the drama anyway, and yeah, Dani is falling, clearly..

Drew: Hard. Can we get a reveal?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Right. Then we go back to the mean streets of Los Angeles, and all the firefighters are there, and they got Alice, her kitten, out of a tree, and then those lights kind of come up.

Analyssa: As the lights started coming up, I said …

Riese: Yeah, and you see her hair. Because also, they had her holding the kitten with gloves on, and it was only from chest, down. And I was like, “It’s Tasha! It’s Tasha!” And then it went around, and then-

Analyssa: I watched this episode at 2:00 in the morning, and I gasped so loudly that I was worried I would wake you and Elise, or Alex. I was like, “I still don’t know how sound travels in our home after two years of living in it.” And I was like, “They heard me.” Then Tasha has returned, and they have, to me, some of the most delightful banter I’ve ever encountered.

Drew: They are immediately bickering. It’s great.

Riese: I know. Alice was like, “This is so annoying.” And this was what they were always fighting about. But I was like, this is interesting that Tasha’s back, because Tasha was the one who was there for her during the Daryl Brewer round one, and who also was like, “This was terrible. What were you thinking?”

Analyssa: Right. Was supportive, but also had a voice of reason.

Riese: Yeah. They literally broke up over it and got back together. In my imagination, when I first realized Tasha’s going to be in this episode, I wanted them to immediately go to each other, start making out, then we have a sex scene. I was ready. I was completely shocked that they were going to actually start it with them immediately fighting.

Drew: It was very funny. I really appreciated that as it’s like, “Oh, the lighting. The reveal.” And then it was like, “Oh, my God!” So funny. And then the very final moment is the extra eating the chicken. The chicken that was on the string, because she hands it to the extra.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, “Here, it’s good.”

Drew: And I don’t remember the last thing she says to Tasha.

Riese: I do.

Analyssa: They bicker, and then Alice is like, “Fuck this, I’m leaving. I don’t need this.”

Riese: Right. After she walks them down, she thanks all of the firefighters for their service, pressing company excluded. It was so funny.

Analyssa: Yes. And then she’s like, “All right. I’m going back home.” And then Tasha’s like, “Alice, wait.” And I was like … And she goes, “There’s paperwork.”

Riese: But there’s a moment when she says Alice. She turns around, and her face is wide open and hopeful. And there’s also a part … Did I wash this four times? Yes. It turns out I’m deeply invested in Alice and Tasha in a way that I had forgotten. But there’s a part when Alice is talking to the firefighters, when Tasha’s smiling and watching, like, “Here she goes.” And not in an antagonistic way.

Drew: Yeah. But then after there’s paperwork in the background, the extra-

Analyssa: The extra is just eating the thing that-

Drew: Ate the chicken, and took one big bite, and had wide eyes watching the thing. And I was like, “Excellent work. Shout out to that extra.”

Riese: I also was like, “There’s a man filming their conversation, too.”

Drew: I was worried about that.

Riese: I was like, “Alice, what are you doing? This is not a good look either. You’re yelling at a firefighter.”

Analyssa: Well, because she’s like, “You don’t-”

Riese: You can’t yell at a firefighter.

Analyssa: Any firefighter. Even if you know them, the context won’t matter. But she was like, “Everyone knows that I’m having a bad day. Everyone in the world knows that I’m having a bad day.” And Tasha’s like, “Absolutely not. I know nothing about what you’re doing.”

Drew: It is such a good choice to have Tasha back, for many reasons. But one is because she was the one who would always call Alice out on being like, “You live in a bubble.” And so, now-

Riese: I really hope she’s in. In the episode description for the next episode, which will be out by the time we-

Drew: She has to be in the next-

Riese: It says, “Alice discovers the one is closer than she thinks.” Or something like that.

Drew: It’s got to be Tasha, right?

Riese: I mean, it’s either Tasha, or it’s Shane. Right?

Drew: That’d be wild.

Riese: I think-

Analyssa: Imagine.

Riese: I mean, what? Tess? Sophie? Closer than-

Analyssa: Right. Closer than you think is, they’re around, they’re in your orbit right now.

Riese: Right.

Drew: I mean, yeah.

Riese: If Tasha’s not in the next episode, I am going to actually physically cry.

Drew: I would be really sad. I guess Taylor’s just not a thing. I really thought that Taylor was going to be a thing.

Analyssa: Okay. You can have Bella having a crush on Angie, but you will not have-

Drew: Well, no. I was wrong. I was so wrong.

Analyssa: Taylor and Alice didn’t really break up.

Drew: I know. I know. I’m not-

Riese: But I guess that was leading to this sort of-

Drew: Right.

Riese: That she’s living in a bubble, and she’s not understanding what she’s doing.

Analyssa: So then-

Drew: And that’s the episode-

Analyssa: That was the episode.

Riese: They have so much to do next week. How?

Analyssa: There are so many balls in the air.

Riese: Bette and Tina getting married.

Drew: They’re going to get married next episode? I guess so.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The big event.

Riese: The big event.

Drew: Do you know what would be great?

Riese: Huh?

Drew: Another time jump. It’s been a month.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: We’re past the wedding.

Riese: Tasha and Alice are wedding dates.

Drew: And Hendrix is going to be Angie’s date, drops out. Angie needs a date. Bella volunteers.

Riese: Yeah, Bella steps in. Yeah.

Drew: What other storylines?

Riese: Well, the-

Drew: Shane’s opened her salon.

Riese: The storyline is-

Analyssa: Finley and Sophie hook up at the reception.

Riese: Yes. So it’s like-

Drew: Should we do fan fiction? No more podcasts.

Riese: The description was something like, “Shane and Sophie try to break old patterns. Micah and Maribel take a first step on their road to parenthood. Finley takes a big step as an adult.” Or something. I assume that’s getting an apartment. I don’t think the descriptions say anything about Bette and Tina, but we all know that they’re going to get married, because other bloggers have talked about that. But I’m just like, “How are they going to do all of this?”

Drew: Do we know if it’s the same length as the usual episodes?

Analyssa: I was going to say, extra chunky episode.

Riese: Hopefully it’s longer.

Analyssa: Let’s go.

Riese: I’m ready for an hour 20 minute episode.

Analyssa: It’s Showtime. They can do it.

Drew: Given how long it took them to renew season three, I don’t know if the ratings have been astronomically better.

Riese: They haven’t.

Drew: But most networks have been cutting costs. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next episode of The L Word is the last episode of The L Word, until The L Word: Old Folks Home, or whatever the next generation of reboots is.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah, I know.

Drew: I think that’s a real… It’s so…

Riese: I think, logically, they should renew it, because if you’re talking about wanting to get new subscribers for a streaming network, lesbians will sign up for your network.

Drew: Yeah. If people who made decisions recognized how much money they could make off of gay people, they would make different business decisions than they do.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: It’s true.

Riese: Last season, by the time we got to episode 208, we were like, “This show is terrible, and I never want to see it again.” But they really had a big comeback this week.

Analyssa: This was a strong comeback.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: The thing I was just thinking about is, I don’t know how Showtime works, but I know in my day job that sometimes if an episode comes in short earlier in the season, you can buy time for episodes later in the season.

Riese: Oh, interesting.

Analyssa: And the musical episode was super short.

Riese: It was.

Analyssa: Relative to the rest of them. I’m thinking … I don’t know if that has anything to do with that. We’ve had that sometimes where writers and producers will want a show to be extra long, and we’re like, “Well, you have to lose it from other episodes.” Or they’ll turn in a really short episode, and be like, “This is great. Because it means we have a few more minutes for something else.”

Riese: Interesting.

Drew: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. It’s-

Riese: Are Gigi-

Analyssa: Oh, yeah. Is Gigi going to come back?

Riese: Is Gigi coming back? That’s the other thing. Now I’m like, “They don’t even have time for that.” Because next, they have to do something with Angie and Bella next time. Right? They have to something with Alice and Tessa, for me, personally.

Drew: I mean, Micah and Maribel can literally, their storyline, something happens in five seconds. I bet they get five seconds of the episode.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: I guess they don’t have to do anything with Carrie and Misty. That’s a bummer. But there’s nothing up in the air there. They have something to do with Finley. Dani and Dre have to decide what they’re doing. Sophie will obviously have a storyline. I don’t really know what the question mark is. But-

Riese: Yeah. It’s whatever it is, trying to break old patterns.

Drew: What I find frustrating is-

Riese: Air pollution?

Drew: What? I do find air pollution frustrating.

Analyssa: The cost of living in Los Angeles?

Drew: Oh, God. 100 and whatever dollars on groceries today just killed me.

Riese: Yeah, everything costs like $20 now.

Drew: I don’t know how I’m going to… Anyways, that’s not what I was talking about. What I was talking about is the fact that if I felt more assurance that, I don’t know, A League of Their Own was coming back for a second season, or some other shows that I like that have queer characters on them, and not just queer characters on them, but are queer centric. If I had more faith that they were continuing, that new ones were coming, I would say, “I think it’s maybe time.”

I think a lot of the problems that Gen Q has is a product of trying to make up for the past, move forward, encompass all these different generations, all these different identities. And if the season finale next episode is a really strong season finale with a Bette, Tina wedding, it sort of does feel like it’s important to know when to say goodbye, and that feels right.

The only problem is, as much as it drives me nuts, the media landscape has changed a lot since the original L Word. But when it comes to an ensemble show of queer characters, I mean Queer as Folk got canceled. We don’t really have it. And so, that is the only thing that’s like a real bummer.

Riese: Yeah. It’s also a bummer because Showtime is one of the only networks that realizes that advertising your lesbian show to a lesbian audience, through a lesbian website, is a really good idea. Because no one else seems to…

Analyssa: Want to be interested in that?

Riese: Including Queer as Folk.

Drew: Queer as Folk didn’t advertise at all.

Riese: I feel like they’re on bus stops.

Drew: And dropped all the episodes at once. I mean, all these fucking networks just set their shows up to fail. Imagine if A League of Their Own was released weekly, the hold it would’ve had on… I mean, we have Yellowjackets and stuff. That’s-

Riese: Yeah. But also, what are they doing now? How are all these actors and writers going to fit this into their schedule? They’ve been waiting a year, basically, to see if they’re going to be renewed. This doesn’t make sense.

Anyway, I’m excited for next week. They have a lot of work to do, and unfortunately, on my press account, episode 10 was there. And then I guess they changed their mind and took it back, and now I just think, “God, I wish I’d watched it.” But I hadn’t even watched this one yet. Now I just have to sit here not knowing, and it hurts deeply.

Lauren: Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back, Generation Q edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. And you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the Talented Beast Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two a’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this EP, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Drew: 3, 2, 1. Quirky.

Analyssa: Quibi.

Riese: Quintessential.

Drew: I said quirky. I don’t have a reason why, but if you give me a second, I’m sure I could justify it. Who was the quirkiest character this episode?

Riese: Alice.

Analyssa: It’s almost always Alice.

Drew: Alice in the little Evil Knievel… yeah.

Analyssa: I want to see her ride that little bike so bad. I said Quibi. RIP to Quibi.

Drew: Oh, wow. RIP Quibi.

Riese: Oh, Quibi. Wow, that was a lark.

Analyssa: Yeah, wasn’t it?

Riese: I said quintessential because it’s quintessential.

Drew: I could not agree more, Riese.

Analyssa: So true.

Riese: Thank you.

Drew: It’s about time someone say it.

Analyssa: That was brave of you.

Riese: I wanted to be brave today, and after Shane pitched her salon to Tess, I thought if Shane could do that, I can do anything. I can have a salon.

Analyssa: You could.

Riese: Yeah. Thank you so much for all your time. I don’t know who I’m talking to, you guys, Carol, the audience, the listeners, the fans, the lovers, the dreamers.

Analyssa: The haters.

Riese: The haters. Yeah. If you hate us, thank you.

Drew: You’re listening. And at the end of the day—

Analyssa: That’s what matters to us.

Riese: That’s what matters to us. That’s what mattered to Alice.

The L Word Generation Q Episode 309 Recap: Quiet Before The Firestorm

Hello and welcome to the ninth episode of the third season of The L Word: Generation Q, brought to you by the same network that brought you the original L Word, a show about how it is not a woman’s job to be consumed and invaded and spat out so that some f*cking man can evolve!!!!!

Today’s recap of Generation Q Episode 309 “Quiet Before the Storm” is dedicated to whomstever is in charge of making the trail mix at Whole Foods, I salute your work, it’s really gotten me through so much. Also, “Quiet Before the Storm” marked Kate Moennig’s directorial debut, Bette and Tina’s return to the playing field and, in my opinion, the season’s strongest episode! It felt coherent and well-constructed and there were so many funny dialogue exchanges I couldn’t even transcribe them all.

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I would like to start out by saying although I liked this episode overall, I have sent the first 30 seconds of it to the FCC, Lambda Legal, the FDA, the HRC, the ADA, the AMA, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, my own mother, Amnesty International, the YMCA and every Democratic official elected to the House of Representatives in the past 75 years in an attempt to notify the world that a crime against humanity has been committed and must be dealt with. I cannot say for sure what the consequences will be but I’m confident they will be swift and dire.

My friends, the show opens in the corridors of a well-lit but sparsely occupied hospital. There is doctor chatter. There is an affirmation of a dropping heart rate, there is a shot of a screen containing blood pressure readings. There are words like “stabilizing” and “CC” that we all recognize from precisely what this scene turns out to be… an episode of GREY’S ANATOMY.

(It’s not an actual clip from Grey’s Anatomy, obvs that’s not in the budget, but it’s a clip meant to stand in for an episode of Grey’s Anatomy)

“See, she’s not dead,” says Carrie in voiceover as the camera pulls back to reveal her and Misty alive and well on the couch, enjoying a little Shondaland.

Finley arrives, looking cute and sporty in her backwards hat with bags of luxurious take-out, and immediately expresses concern that Carrie and Misty have not begun the day with a balanced breakfast and a little “movement,” as per the doctor’s order. At first I thought she meant “bowel movement” so that was a little journey for me.

“I find Grey’s Anatomy really healing, you know,” Carrie says. “It’s gotten me through some really rough patches in my life.” This is incredibly accurate lesbian representation.

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Elsewhere in “film/tv as therapy” we find Angie huddled under a blanket hiding from the world and also her Intro to Creative Writing class, watching The Four-Faced Liar. When Bella tells her she’s gotta get up out of that thing and go to class, Angie says she doesn’t care if she fails. Furthermore she’s dreading this evening’s reading and doesn’t want Bella to come watch her. This is literally exactly why you shouldn’t date your teacher.

Bella: “You’re way too hot to be hung up on some Hemingway wannabe.”
Angie: “I hope to one day share that perspective.”

But then… SURPRISE! Bette and Tina have traveled over the stormy middle of this spoiled country and landed in Los Angeles, just in time for Angie’s reading!

Bette and Tina are bubbling and doting and truly adorable.

Tina: “You don’t have to be nervous, honey, because you are an amazing writer!”
Bette: “You have such a command of the stage, you were terrific in your high school productions.”
Angie: “I was a stagehand.”
Bette: “And it was memorable!”

As Bette collects balls of Kleenex from Angie’s bed to sustainably dispose of them in a cardboard take-out container, Tina gently suggests Angie look into showering. We all know that Sisterhood is Powerful t-shirt has been through some rough times.

“Um, lowkey iconic,” Bella mutters accurately as Bette and Tina depart.

---

We then fly across the clear blue sky and into the window of the bedroom of Shane McCutcheon, who’s naked and sprawled out in bed. She rolls over to see Tess attempting an early morning Irish Goodbye. Shane says it was so nice to have Tess there and the dog missed her and maybe they could go talk to a couple’s therapist if Tess is ready for that?

Despite the universally held belief by not only Tess but the entirety of the lesbian population (2004 – 2023) that Shane desperately requires therapy, Tess declines this offer to enroll in Couples Therapy.

“I just think it would be a good idea,” Shane says.

“Well, you also thought it’d be a good idea to fuck another woman—” Tess says.

Point of order: I don’t think Shane ever said she thought it was a good idea to fuck another woman.

Tess then announces her intention to visit “the expansion” to see “the tile guy.” Okay

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Cut to the set of The Aloce Show, where Alice is showing Sophie photographs of Piddles Junior for what seems to be absolutely not the first time, and they’re both thrilled about today’s season finale and its very special guest Rachel Maddow!

But then Sophie gets a series of notifications on her phone — Alice’s little squabble with Taylor in the movie theater has gone viral, thanks to noted “tiny cretin of a man” James Corden (who, you may recall, Alice has previously expressed hatred towards) and the hashtag he invented for her antics: #AliceSoEntitled. Of course this has inspired the internet to do its thing, digging up Alice’s sins from the year of our lord 2008.

Sophie looks up from her phone: “Alice, do you know a guy named Darryl Brewer?”

😬

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Anybody aching for a breath of fresh air will be delighted to learn our next stop is the wild canyons of Los Angeles, where Finley’s taking Carrie and Misty on a hike.

Misty suggests sex as a reward for finishing this little incline but Carrie hesitates – she wasn’t expecting to feel all these feelings with Misty! Misty wasn’t expecting to feel all these feelings with Carrie!

“I mean I’m not somebody who just jumps right in to the sex stuff,” Carrie adds. Misty says she gets it totally one hundred percent, they don’t have to do anything she’s not ready for, but also she’d like Carrie to know that she’s very good at sex.

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Back at The Aloce Show, Alice is on the phone with Barry and it’s not going great.

Squabble #14: I Am Sorry That You Feel This Way
In the Ring: Alice vs. Barry

Content:  Alice recalls meeting Darryl and outing him but doesn’t regret her decision to put him on blast. (I will explain this situation at length shortly to anybody who doesn’t remember it or didn’t watch the original series!) Sophie, providing reason amid Alice’s chaos, assures Barry that Alice is very sorry, absolutely will say so, and there’s no need to cancel the show tonight!

Who Wins? Sophie for being very good at her job amid challenging circumstances

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Cut to Dani’s Castle in the Sky, where Dre’s writing a song because they’re songwriter and Dani’s staring at her phone, probably googling “what happened to Devon Sawa” or “Sepideh Moafi Generation Q Season 3”

Dani leans in for the makeout and for one hot second I thought we were all as a community about to witness lesbian sex on television. But alas! Dre slips up with a, “God I love you,” and Dani immediately recoils.

Before Dani’s gotta deal with the love unfurled before her, Sophie calls and she picks up like an eager beaver.

---

We then return to the sullied halls of California University for a surprisingly well-attended student reading in an enormous venue. Angie tells Bella she’s nervous her parents can “sniff out” her affair with Hendrix Fitz but Bella assures her it’s okay.

“You’re the best person I know,” Bella tells her, futzing with the sleeves of Angie’s blazer. “You’re smart and kind and full of life and wisdom. He’s an idiot, and you’re a catch. It’s so obvious.”

“Says who?” asks Angie.

And it that moment it becomes clear: Bella. It’s Bella who says who. Through all the zombie makeup and sex advice and the homoerotic experience of having a condom retrieved from her vaginal canal by Angelica Porter-Kennard, a spark has emerged within Bella’s gut: she clearly has a thing for Angie.

In case Bella had any hesitance at all about the prosperity enabled by a lesbian lifestyle, Bette and Tina wave for Bella to come join them in the auditorium.

---

We return to the offices of The Aloce Show, where Sophie’s called in professional fixer Dani Nunez because if you can spin the opioid crisis to someone who just lost his son to an overdose, you can spin Alice outing a basketball player on now-defunct website Our Chart Dot Com in 2008.

A refresher: in 2008, Alice was invited to a secret gay party and attended it with her girlfriend, Tasha Williams, who was at that time under investigation by the military for homosexual conduct. The party was intended as a safe space for wealthy, closeted people, and all attendees were required to sign an NDA and forfeit their devices at the door. Barry, the party host (this show only knows like five male names), also personally requested Alice’s discretion after implausibly declaring himself a fan of her pod. Alice was giddy with excitement over the possible “famous closet cases” she might encounter at this event.

Tasha almost immediately clocked the presence of Top Ranking Point Guard in the NBA Darryl Brewer, and Alice, in a flagrant disregard for rules intended to protect homosexuals from discrimination in a hostile world, used her Samsung Flip-Phone to secretly capture Darryl Brewer dancing with his boyfriend and somehow did so undetected. Then, Alice saw Darryl Brewer on her favorite channel, New News Live, talking shit about John Amaechi, the first NBA basketball player to come out.

So she decided to post a video outing him (and everybody standing behind him at the party) on Our Chart dot com.

The video went viral, Alice was interviewed on her favorite channel New News Live, and her fame from this event eventually landed her a guest-hosting gig on The Look, replacing their former gay co-host who they considered to be “too angry” (who at the time we assumed was meant to be a nod at Rosie O’Donnell leaving The View).

But first, it landed her in hot water with Tasha, who was understandably shocked that Alice would out this man, particularly while Tasha was being investigated for Army. This man had a family and children and him being in the closet is not their fault and they were also going to suffer for this! It was also not a great look for Tasha to have her Very Close Female Friend on television during Tasha’s trial.

Alice and Tasha consequently broke up, although they did get back together a few episodes later as Tasha bid farewell to Army.

The fact that Alice had signed an NDA and would undoubtedly be in trouble with her alleged pal Barry and the entirety of closeted Hollywood (which was “most of it” at the time) was never addressed.

Unfortunately, then as in now — Alice would prefer to lean in.

Alice: “If people really think that I’m an out of touch, entitled asshole, then I say we make the bit out of it.”
Dani: “I fear that would make things worse.”
Alice: “Kimmel would do it. Sophie you know he would!”
Sophie: “Yes, but! Kimmel isn’t a queer woman.”

Alice doesn’t mean to disrespect these two women, but they don’t know what it was like to be gay back then, when men could go on television and call people f*ggots! As someone who was gay back then and watching and recapping this program, I can testify that Alice’s decision seemed incredibly bad to me at the time, too!

Alice insists she doesn’t regret what she said and therefore feels no need to apologize. For a moment I thought the show was actually going to address and acknowledge race as a concept — how that impacts her perception of herself as the more oppressed party in that outing as well as in this conversation — but instead they simply do not!

Sophie gets that this is what Alice wants to do, but they’re still the only queers on television so they’ve gotta do an apology. Fine, Alice says. FINE SHE’LL SAY SHE’S SORRY!!!!!!

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L Word Generation Q Season 3: Everything We Know

The L Word Generation Q Season 3 debuted on Showtime on November 18th. Here’s everything we know about the season!

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Episode 310: Looking Ahead

Episode Description: Shane and Sophie challenge old patterns, while Alice discovers “The One” may be closer than she thinks. Dani distracts herself from Dre, until a surprising reveal force her to choose what she really wants. Micah and Maribel make moves toward becoming parents, while Finley takes a big step into adulthood as all of the season’s love, lust, loss, laughs and longing come to a head. Season finale.

• Read the recap of Episode 310: Looking Ahead
• Listen to the To L and Back Podcast of Episode 310

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Episode 309: Quiet Before the Storm

Episode Description: Alice’s past mistakes blow up in her face, forcing Sophie and Dani to pick up the pieces. Shane drops a bombshell at Angie’s class reading. Meanwhile, Finley helps Carrie seduce Misty, but can Carrie check her baggage and get the girl?

• Read the recap of Episode 309: Quiet Before the Storm
• Listen to the To L and Back Podcast of Episode 309

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Episode 308: Quality Family Time

Episode Description: Chosen families come together at Thanksgiving when an unwelcome visitor brings Finley to her breaking point. Sophie realizes the price of her indecisiveness, while Maribel plans a grand gesture for Micah, and Carrie lets her true feelings slip. Across town, Dani kicks back for a solo holiday until unexpected circumstances push her and Dre closer, and Shane and Angie volunteer together when a surprise sighting forces them to confront Angie’s feelings.

• Read the recap of Episode 308: Quality Family Time
• Listen to the To L and Back Podcast of Episode 308

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Episode 307: Little Boxes

Episode Description: Alice searches for “The One” while Dani fights her true feelings. Sophie jeopardizes Micah and Maribel’s chance at parenthood. Finley acts as Carrie’s wingman while Angie must confront a hard truth before furthering things with Hendrix.

• Read the recap of Episode 307: Little Boxes
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of 307

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Episode 306: Questions for The Universe

Episode Description: In a very special episode, Alice, Shane and Sophie grapple with their biggest questions on the path to finding “The One.”

• Read the recap of Episode 306: Questions for the Universe
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of Episode 306

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Episode 305: Locked Out

Episode Description: Tensions run high as Alice and Tess uncover the lies in their relationships and awkward circumstances leave Shane with nowhere to run. Dani lives her romcom fantasy with a sexy stranger until she discovers some serious baggage that threatens Sophie and Finley’s newfound trust. Meanwhile, Micah and Maribel struggle to take the first step into parenthood as Angie helps her roommate through a sticky situation.

• Read the recap of Episode 305: Locked Out
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of Episode 305

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Episode 304: Last To Know

Episode Description: Micah finds a queer role model with a familiar face, while a new face comes to town and helps Dani and Sophie break out of their funk. Meanwhile, Alice tests the waters of her new relationship, until scary movie night becomes a little too scary. Shocking truths come to light when the masks come off.

• Read the recap of Episode 304: Last to Know
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode for Episode 304

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Episode 303: Quiz Show

Episode Description: “Alice leverages her 100th episode as an opportunity to find “the one” with help from a special appearance by guest Margaret Cho. Dani cares for Gigi until old wounds drive them apart. Meanwhile, Shane competes for Tess’s attention. Finley and Carrie make big moves, while Angie discovers a troubling revelation about her new flame.”

• Read the recap of Episode 303: Quiz Show
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of Episode 303

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Episode 302: Los Angeles Traffic

Episode Description: Bette and Shane break new ground with Tina and Tess, respectively, but old habits come back to bite them. Sparks fly with Alice’s latest prospect until an unexpected revelation, while Angie heals her heartbreak with a new flame. Meanwhile, Finley competes for Maribel’s favor until Maribel drops a bomb about Sophie that threatens to tear them apart, and Dani puts hurt feelings aside for Gigi, but is it too late?

• Read the recap of Episode 302: Leaving Los Angeles
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of Episode 302

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New Generation Q Key Art Teases Photo Booth Hookups

Snaps from this photobooth have been popping up in L Word advertisements and billboards and also all over the Instagram accounts of the actors involved (see: Jacqueline Toboni, Shane, Leisha Hailey (with Margaret Cho!), Jennifer Beals) and everybody has questions about FINLEY AND DANI. Well, according to Ash Silver, “these pics are from a photo booth on set the cast could have fun in, except Bette & Tina are photoshopped in obviously.” So they don’t necessarily mean that Finley and Dani actually are gonna hook up this season, but I personally would love that because I LOVE CHAOS.

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Episode 301: Last Year Info

Episode Description: Bette and Tina struggle to reconcile their past and future selves as Angie is dealt a shocking blow on her first day of college. Meanwhile, Shane adjusts to domestic life with Tess, and Alice questions what she wants in a partner. At the bungalow, Finley returns from rehab and works to pick up the pieces of the life she left behind with Sophie, while Dani and Micah take big swings with Gigi and Maribel. Season premiere.

• Read the recap of Episode 301: Last Year
• Listen to To L and Back podcast episode of Episode 301

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Donald Faison Returning as Guest Star in Season 3 of The L Word Generation Q, Paula Placido To Play “Roxy”

As per Showtime:

Picking up right where the dramatic season two cliffhanger left off, the series continues to follow the cast of characters as they struggle with secrets, old scars and new flames on their search for “the one.” Bette Porter (Jennifer Beals) is on the brink of a devastating letdown or startling confession after Tina (guest star Laurel Holloman) appears at her door; while they determine their future together, their daughter Angie (Jordan Hull) embraces her new freedom at college, finding love in all the wrong places.  At the bungalow, Finley (Jacqueline Toboni) returns from rehab and discovers news about Sophie (Rosanny Zayas) that threatens both her sobriety and their relationship. Meanwhile, Dani (Arienne Mandi) and Micah (Leo Sheng) both attempt to take major steps forward in their relationships, but Gigi’s (Sepideh Moafi) baggage and Maribel’s (guest star Jillian Mercado) temper put their plans to the test. The drama heightens as Shane (Kate Moennig) and Tess (Jamie Clayton) grapple with secrets that could tear them apart for good, while Alice (Leisha Hailey) questions whether she’ll ever find her soulmate, or if she’s doomed to be alone forever. Rosie O’Donnell and Donald Faison also return to guest star in their roles of Carrie and Tom, respectively.

In addition to the new news that Donald Faison is returning in a guest capacity, the trailer and new information on IMDB reveal that artist Paula Andrea Placido will be joining The L Word: Generation Q for at least two episodes, playing “Roxy.”

You may recognize Paula from Hacks, where she played Hannah’s hot subletter who Hannah ended up hooking up with or from Shameless, where she played a lesbian bartender Debbie did not end up hooking up with but they did kiss, so.

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Trailer and Teaser for The L Word: Generation Q: Season 3

The trailer for The L Word Generation Q:Season 3 has been annotated chaotically by the entire TV team. You can also watch it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cga77KHzbqA&feature=emb_title

Previously, a teaser for The L Word Generation Q Season 3 on Amazon Prime Video which I have thus far been unable to locate on my own interface for The L Word Generation Q but mark my words I sure will eventually! Luckily, fans have stepped in and recorded the teaser for us all to witness:

GINI!!!! Smiling into kissing!!!!! But Dani saying “Are you dating me or her?” and the camera points to Gigi looking at Nat and turning around to Dani????? WTF!!!???? #Gini #TheLWordGenerationQ pic.twitter.com/IwuHLhvSxk

— María 🧁🐾 (@gini__us) October 12, 2022

The new teaser plays with the chart motif once more, showing us clips of Dani and Gigi, Sophie and Finley, Micah and Mirabel, Shane and Tess and Bette and Tina. There’s Dani asking “are you dating me or her” while we see some camera-play between Gigi and Nat? There’s Alice saying, probably to Shane let’s be honest, “things get too real, you get restless” while the tape cuts from Kehlani to Alice! There’s Mirabel saying “you two are so toxic together” about Sophie and Finley, because she underestimates the worth of this important ship! ALSO WHY IS THERE A LINE ON THE CHART FROM SOPHIE TO REBECCA THAT DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE??

Previously, we were served a sneak peek clip of Season 3 from Showtime, showing Bette opening the door for Tina as per the final scene of Season 2.

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Who Are The New Cast Members and Guest Stars?

In September, Fletcher announced on twitter that she has gotten herself a new trailer… ON THE SET OF THE L WORD GENERATION Q! A stunning next move after creating so much lesbian drama this summer!

it’s official. #TheLWord needed more drama for Season 3…so they invited me to be on it. we did it fam pic.twitter.com/33NNSqAGQD

— FLETCHER (@findingfletcher) September 21, 2022

Musician Kehlani will be playing Ivy, a single Mom who is “re-entering the world of dating after having a baby” and “falling for an unavailable woman.”

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A post shared by Entertainment Weekly (@entertainmentweekly)

Also on our list of guest stars? Chrishell of “Selling Sunset” posted a TikTok from her trailer on October 12th indicating that she, too, will be appearing on the program:

Other guest stars announced for Season Three include:

• Joey Lauren Adams (Chasing Amy) as Taylor, a “salt-of-the-earth barista with a secret passion”
• Joanna Cassidy (Six Feet Under) as Patty, Tess’ mom and a former Las Vegas showgirl now suffering from multiple sclerosis and dementia;
• Margaret Cho will play herself as a guest host on the Alice talk show

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Everything We Know About the Plot of L Word Generation Q Season Three

TV Line recently dropped a little bit of buzz regarding Season Three of The L Word; Generation Q: Jordan Hall revealed that Angie will be 18 when the series picks up and “will tackle young adulthood, and her relationship with her Moms will thicken.”

Jillian Mercado told TV Line that “drama, drama, drama!” and “life-altering decisions” are coming up for Maribel, continuing: “All of the questions [from last season] will be answered [and] a lot of beautiful romances and relationships and real-life experiences will be told.”

Previously, we learned from Entertainment Weekly that The L Word: Generation Q is “all about finding the one in season 3” and will include “some returning characters from the original series.” We already knew that Tina was coming back, and I know personally of one other original series cast member who is returning but I was sworn to secrecy. So that’s at least two, but here’s hoping for even more!

As for Bette and Tina, Marja Lewis-Ryan told Entertainment Weekly: “With so much history between them, they’re forced to answer: Would it be different this time around or is it too little too late?” 

Furthermore, L Word YouTuber Ash Silver recently did a set visit in Los Angeles, and Jamie Clayton told Ash that everybody was gonna “lose their mind” about the finale. Other cast members Ash spoke to seemed particularly fond of Episode Six. She also observed that it appears the network is investing more money in the show this season, noting specifically that filming has been moved from the Paramount Lot onto their own lot.

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Carrie (Rosie O’Donnell) is Returning for Season Three and May Have a Sex Scene

Rosie O’Donnell has been posting videos from set and on The Howard Stern Show on September 12th, and that she will, probably, have a sex scene, directed by none other than L Word Sex Scene God Shane McCutcheon.

“They said it’s a sex scene,” Rosie told Howard, “and I told them when I took the job I’m not doing a sex scene but the women who are there, they’re so smart and they’re young and they’re in their 30s and 40s and they’re writing this incredible stuff.”

While still uncertain about shooting the scene, Rosie related that Kate Moenning is directing the episode and has assured Rosie there’ll be an intimacy coordinator. According to IMDB it appears that Katherine O’Keefe, a queer intimacy coordinator who has worked on Vida, For All Mankind and Grey’s Anatomy, will be doing the intimate honors for Generation Q’s third season.

On August 30th, Rosie O’Donnell posted a TikTok from set on August 30th, saying she was “in her Carrie hair” and had just shot a scene at a bowling alley. “I love it here,” Rosie said. “People are so nice. Everyone! The crew, the cast, the drivers. Yesterday we did a scene in the bowling alley and today all of my thigh muscles hurt. Or, I should say, both of my thigh muscles hurt.”

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Will Pippa (Vanessa Estelle Williams) Be in Season 3?

During a set visit, L Word reporter Ash Silver asked about how many episodes Vanessa Estelle Williams and Rosie O’Donnell were going to be in, and was told Rosie would just be in a few episodes. She was unable to receive confirmation re: Williams’ episode count.

Vanessa Estelle Williams hasn’t been listed as part of the cast on imdb, but Ash’s question and Pippa’s name scrawled on the first page of the aforementioned Episode 301 script do suggest she could be returning, even if just for one moment! On October 4th, Vanessa Estelle Williams posted a video from set — Casamigos Ranch in Malibu — and it seems that commenters have assumed the set-in-question is The L Word Generation Q.

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L Word Generation 3 Season Three Premiere Will Stream November 18, 2022

Today it was announced on Instagram that the third season of L Word Generation 3 will be streaming on Showtime starting November 18, 2022 and will premiere on the network grid on November 20th.

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A post shared by The L Word on Showtime (@sho_thelword)

The post also contained a lot of cryptic notes, such as a list of names that includes Carrie (Tina’s ex), Pippa (Bette’s… ex?), Ivy (?) and Skye (?), the indication that perhaps “someone gets married” (which could involve pictionary or patriarchy?) and a nod to the existence of time itself: LAST YEAR? LATER? QUEERER?. Other notes reference the concept of “fucking your ex” and “i wanna f u on my livestream” and also a drawing of a person with curly hair, TBD.

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L Word Generation Q Season 3 Cast Share Photos From Set:

Season 3 of The L Word Generation Q began production the week of June 9th, and the whole cast has been sharing fun pics from set ever since. Here’s a collection from Leisha Hailey:

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A post shared by Leisha Hailey (@leishahailey)

Ilene Chaiken came to set:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Laurel Holloman (@laurelholloman)

Look at Kate Moennig and Jordan Hull in suits and shiny shoes!!??!

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A post shared by Kate Moennig (@kateomoennig)

Look at these ladies heading out on a road trip?!?!

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A post shared by Jennifer Beals (@thejenniferbeals)

Look at these set pics from Jamie Clayton, Kate Moennig and Leo Sheng:

On June 8th, Leisha Hailey posted a photo from set starring herself, hair/makeup artist Christy Tagatac, actor/screenwriter Chris Renfro and makeup artist Angel Radefeld-Wright:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Leisha Hailey (@leishahailey)

Laurel Holloman also posted photos from set.

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Meet The Writer’s Room

Marja Lewis-Ryan has posted an instagram photo of the writer’s room for The L Word Generation Q Season 3 and once again it appears that I am somehow not in it. However, many others are!

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A post shared by Marja-Lewis Ryan (@marjalewisryan)

L Word Generation Q’s Season Three Writing Team Is:

Nova Cypress Black: Non-binary writer, arts educator and poet, 2021 Outfest Screenwritng Lab Fellow, 2021 Hillman Grad Mentee, Damn Write Originals Screenwriter. Nova posted some pics of their move to LA on Instagram, including a shot next to their nameplate as Staff at The L Word Generation Q, and Lena Waithe commented “proud.” SO!

Melody Derloshon: Producer of The L Word Generation Q since Season One, has previously been credited with writing one episode each season, previous projects include Cougar Town and Telenovela.

Allie Romano: Writer and story editor on The L Word Generation Q since Season One. Previously worked as a Staff Writer on The Upshaws and a writer’s assistant on The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistence. Associate Producer on Marja Lewis-Ryan’s film 6 Balloons (2018).

Marie Tomisato: Screenwriter/Director. Formerly a Production Assistant on the horror film Scare Us. Is producing a short called Internal.

Nina Kim: Comedy writer. Formerly a Writer’s Production Assistant on Nancy Drew and Shondaland’s Sunshine Scouts and a showrunner’s assistant on Netflix’s Dead to Me. Formerly selected for Viacom’s Writers Mentoring Program. Semifinalist at the 2020 Austin Film Festival. (Also went to the University of Michigan, just like me and also Leo Sheng and also Jacqueline Toboni!)

Alison Levering Wong: Comedy Writer and Actor. Formerly a Staff Writer for One Day at a Time and Paramount’s Rise of the Pink Ladies. Also worked as a producer at Buzzfeed Motion Pictures and as a staff writer for Disney Television Animation and has performed her comedy all over the place!

María Renée Prudencio: Bolivian writer and actress known for The Last Call (2013), The Eternal Feminine (2017) and Club Sandwich (2013).

The last two are Courtney Nicole and Leah Couvelier, and I can’t find much information on either of them, besides that Leah was in a movie called Realm of Shadows in 2022.

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L Word Generation Q Season 3 Is Coming

In February, Showtime announced that they had renewed the series for a third season that would debut later this year. There will be ten episodes, and Leisha Hailey, Kate Moennig, Arienne Mandi, Leo Sheng, Rosanny Zayas, Jacqueline Toboni, Sepideh Moafi, Jamie Clayton, Jennifer Beals and Jordan Hull are all presumably returning to the show.

To L and Back: Generation Q Podcast 308: Let’s Drop a Turkey

In case you’re family drama-ed out after all of the winter holidays that just passed, The L Word is here to provide a fresh supply! And this one is a doozy. It’s Thanksgiving at Dana’s, and Finley’s mom has arrived! Sadly, she did not bring a green bean casserole, just a bad attitude.

All roads lead to Dana’s in this episode, as it becomes the go-to location for Dani and Dre, who are spending the holiday together, Carrie and Misty, who are turkey trotting, and the entire Suarez family who are still mashing potatoes upon arrival.

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SHOW NOTES

+ Honestly this episode was light on references but please read Riese’s recap of 308!

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Drew: Hi, I’m Drew.

Analyssa: And I’m Analyssa.

Riese: And I’m Riese.

Drew: And this is To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Analyssa: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Riese: To L and Back: Generation Q Edition.

Drew: Wow. We all sound like we’re at a funeral.

Riese: In a way, we are.

Analyssa: But isn’t it nice that we all just nailed our intro to our show that we’ve done a hundred times and yet mess up every time?

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Yeah. Well, it’s easier now because we’re in person again.

Drew: That’s true.

Analyssa: That is true.

Drew: Yeah. I’m sorry for last week, when, I think… I want to say that something went wrong with my recorder, but I think I maybe just didn’t hit record in the beginning.

Riese: Ooh.

Drew: It was between Christmas and New Year’s. I’m very sorry.

Analyssa: Drew’s going to have to post a notes app apology.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah. The holidays are done. I think that’s part of it. It’s really rainy here.

Riese: It’s raining right now.

Analyssa: The holidays are over. I had to go back to work this week. Hopefully, Lauren can edit out the rain.

Riese: I know. I was wondering.

Analyssa: Like they did for the Fletcher episode that apparently filmed in the rain.

Drew: Oh.

Riese: Did it really?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: That’s brave of them.

Analyssa: Yeah. Well, they probably had a really small budget, and they were like, “We’re filming today or else we’re never filming again.”

Drew: Yeah. We only have Fletcher for one day.

Riese: We only have Fletcher for one day so… I actually think it was two days that she worked.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: Carol, stop licking yourself. Carol…

Drew: Carol just looked up so like, “Who? Me?”

Riese: She was caught. I mean, sorry. I know that’s what dogs do. And that’s her right, as a dog.

Drew: Sure. We will not cancel you for shaming dogs for their dog-ness. Well, this is an episode of the Gen Q.

Riese: Television.

Analyssa: Of The L Word.

Drew: Yeah. It’s episode 308. It is called Quality Family Time. It’s directed by Em Weinstein who really has directed most of the season, and written by Allie Romano who has written on Gen Q since the beginning and wrote on The Upshaws. I think we can start by saying that this was none of our favorite episodes of the show.

Riese: No. Definitely not.

Analyssa: Definitely not.

Drew: But I have a theory to keep us all a little bit lighter…

Riese: Okay.

Drew: …which is that we spend a lot of time thinking about this television show, and-

Analyssa: I’ve heard this theory.

Riese: Yes.

Analyssa: I was like, “Where could this possibly be going?” And I remember I live with Drew.

Drew: But, okay, so this theory has extra support, which is that… So I’ve been watching The Best Man: The Final Chapters. And it, weirdly enough, is very similar to the third season of The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Huh.

Drew: Because the first two episodes feel like a separate mini season. There’s an ayahuasca thing.

Riese: Wow. Big year for ayahuasca.

Drew: There’s one nonbinary character.

Analyssa: Big ayahuasca is like—

Drew: Because every reboot needs a nonbinary character.

Riese: Right.

Drew: And, well, I don’t know if we can talk about the end of the episode, but, basically, the third to last episode of both the third season of Gen Q, this episode we’re about to talk about, and the third to last episode of The Best Man: The Final Chapters both end with a character having a heart attack.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: Wow.

Drew: And I was like, it’s very real, but they also are both not very-

Riese: Good?

Drew: Yeah. Not very well written, not very whatever. And I’m having a great time watching that show, because I don’t have to take notes on it, don’t have to do anything for it.

Riese: Right. Yeah.

Drew: I’m on my phone. I’m doing other things. I’m getting some work done. Gen Q, I’m taking detailed notes. And it results in it being a pretty miserable experience, when an episode is like this. But, if you’re watching it with friends, chatting, on your phone, doing work, maybe you’re having a great time. And I love that for you.

Analyssa: Right. Elise was excited to catch up on The L Word: Gen Q.

Riese: Oh, really?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Riese: Wow.

Analyssa: She’s like…

Drew: Yeah. Yeah. She caught up, after watching the musical episode. And, I mean, she’s playing solitaire on her phone. It’s on in the background.

Analyssa: Right.

Drew: She’s having a great time.

Riese: I mean, I think about that a lot. Because I think about watching the original series and how, when I was watching season two for the first time, I did not think one critical thought about it.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And then, when I was re-watching it with Carly, for the podcast, I was like, “This is…” I just accepted the whole Marc and Gomey storyline with the cameras as part of the program. And I was there for whatever it had to give me. But I also think about this, from watching Elité, which I’ve brought up before, that, I’m like, “Wow. This is such a disaster.” But I don’t care.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I think I personally spend so much time thinking about this series that I think I get really frustrated. But I really want to be funny.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: I want to be hilarious.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: You know?

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: So, hopefully, I don’t know if I can not complain, but…

Drew: No. No. No.

Riese: …I can try to complain in…

Analyssa: In a fun way.

Riese: A humorous way.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Maybe.

Drew: What a fun challenge.

Riese: Oh, this might be a complain cast.

Drew: Yeah. Well, let’s get into it.

Riese: Welcome to And Another Thing.

Drew: So we start with Carrie asking Finley if she’s sexting Sophie. And Finley says…

Finley: What? No. No one says sexting.
Carrie: No one?
Finley: No!

Analyssa: I’ve never received that memo.

Riese: What do people say instead?

Drew: I don’t know.

Analyssa: Just texting? You just don’t talk about it? That can’t be right.

Riese: People don’t sext anymore, maybe.

Drew: Oh, that can’t be true.

Riese: That can’t be true either.

Drew: I think people, I mean, if you know the new word that people are saying, we want to say…

Riese: Please let us know.

Drew: We want to stay cool.

Riese: Cause we want to say it. Yeah.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: We want to say it. However, I was thrilled to discover that Finley and Sophie were indeed sexting.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Even though I know it’s unhealthy, I was like, yes.

Drew: Can I say something that reveals maybe something about me? Based on the last episode, I thought Finley was texting her mom and things were going well with her mom. And so the episode starts, Finley’s smiling and texting someone and Carrie’s like, it’s Sophie. And in my head I’m like, no, she’s getting along with her mom. That’s not where this was going. But that’s immediately what I thought.

Analyssa: Just in a big way. That’s not where this is going.

Drew: It’s truly not.

Riese: I just, I liked it because I feel like breakups are rarely as clean as they are on this show.

Drew: Fair.

Riese: Especially when you’re in the same social web. It’s not everyone… They don’t break up with Gigi and then Gigi just disappears. And we have no idea why or why she’s still listed on IMDb as being in every episode. It’s so confusing. Anyway,

Drew: And then Finley does a little teasing back about Carrie being in love with Misty. And then Carrie reveals that she and Misty have not had sex yet. And Carrie also says that she’s demisexual which does mean she loved Tina. So let’s just sit with that for a little bit.

Riese: Yeah, let’s all think about that. I will say that their relationship has lasted according to my timeline, five days. So it’s not out of the realm.

Drew: Sure.

Riese: Demisexual or not, I’m not sure.

Drew: Yeah. Absolutely.

Analyssa: I mean, Carrie and Tina were engaged to be wed. I would hope that they…

Drew: I was just making a little funny.

Analyssa: More critically to me. They’re going to do a Turkey Trot, which is just…

Riese: Gretchen does one every Thanksgiving.

Analyssa: Five days into a relationship, you would be hard pressed to catch me doing a Turkey… Any sort of…

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Physical activity? But on Thanksgiving of all…

Riese: Of all days.

Analyssa: On a holiday that I have off work? Simply no.

Drew: Yeah. We should say this is a Thanksgiving episode.

Analyssa: The holidays are over for us.

Drew: Which I was like… The L Word never had an Indigenous character, have they? If they have, remind me, but I was like, and we’re just going to… Then later in the episode, they address it with a brief land acknowledgement and go on their merry way talking about how great Thanksgiving is. But it is a Thanksgiving episode.

Riese: So Carrie and Misty go on their trot and then Finley spots Tess in the back room, which is where 75% of this episode takes place and goes back and they talk briefly about Tess’s mom, her being upset, whatever. And then Finley comes out and her mom shows up. Just like Cherie Jaffe. And just like depression just walks in the door.

Drew: Something else about that is Tess’s mom’s ashes are in that back…

Riese: In Dana’s. Or in Dana’s. Yeah. I’m going to steal them. Make us soup.

Drew: And Finley brags about not knowing anything about politics.

Analyssa: Can I just say one thing that is a complaint, but is a dumb one? I hated the shirts that Finley and Dre were wearing in this episode.

Riese: Oh, really? I liked Finley’s shirt.

Analyssa: I really… Maybe I didn’t hate it, I just was surprised that Finley would wear that.

Drew: Huh. I have to go back. I don’t remember them.

Analyssa: I don’t know. It just looked so business casual to me.

Riese: There were so many closeups of the shirt. I feel like never… Yeah.

Analyssa: I feel like the shirt was really on display.

Riese: I felt like the shirt was a character.

Drew: Season one, I was all about the high waisted pants. And since then I’ve really just not been paying as much attention to the fashion.

Analyssa: I know that this is a fancy event because Dana’s is hosting Thanksgiving dinner, so they’ve got, they have a Turkey cooking. There’s a whole…

Riese: This is abstract, this is all, sure.

Analyssa: Who knows? But they’re having a Thanksgiving dinner of some sort. So I know that it’s a dress up event, and that’s why Finley’s wearing this shirt. But I just was like, this looks like she’s working at the Alice Show as an executive. I don’t know. It just felt weird. Anyway.

Drew: We then go to the one part of the episode that had some enjoyable things, which is Dre is in bed with Dani and was talking about being excited for Thanksgiving. Dani is like, “is your ex going to be there?” But it’s said in a way that feels fairly light and a little bit…

Analyssa: Chill?

Drew: Yeah, and they’re making out, I don’t know. I like these two together. I do miss Gigi, but I might like these two more than Dani and Gigi.

Analyssa: Ooh, wow.

Drew: I miss Gigi.

Analyssa: Sure.

Drew: But I was never fully… I’ve said this, but I was very sold on those two characters and I liked watching them together, but I wasn’t like, oh my God, these are soulmates.

Riese: Oh, I loved them together. But I mean, these guys are cute together too. But then Dre’s flight was canceled, an experience which is relatable to many people. 2,300 Southwest flights were canceled. So that’s a lot of people. We can relate to this. So this is a really relatable episode, and that’s really important. There are people to have things they can connect with.

Analyssa: More critically. The email or text that Dre gets interrupts them kissing.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: Right. Yeah. No one gets to make out on this show. I think we have. It’s, this is fucking Blues Clues now.

Analyssa: As soon as their lips started touching, I was like, okay, what’s going to stop it? What is it? What’s coming?

Riese: Yeah. An anvil? No it was a phone call or a flight alert.

Drew: And then we’re with Shane and Angie who are going to be helping at a food bank. They’re on the phone with Alice, who is with her mom, which makes me go, “oh, Alice isn’t going to be in this episode.”

Analyssa: Right. So now they’re even.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: This must have been in their contracts for this season.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Now, I’m like, this was something that they all kind of wanted or did not want but everyone had to have the same terms.

Riese: Right.

Drew: Right.

Analyssa: Because they’re all the same level in this cast, and they all got an episode off.

Riese: I was devastated because I think, as I said before in the pictures for 308, there were no pictures of Alice. And usually what that means is that they’re involved in a spoiler storyline. One that if there are any pictures of it, we would be…

Analyssa: Like when Dana came back.

Riese: Yeah, like when Dana came back.

Drew: You thought someone was something [inaudible 00:11:44]

Riese: So I thought Tasha was coming back and instead Alice is on the voicemail saying wherever she was, I didn’t even listen, ’cause I was annoyed. But also, I mean, I like Alice, so I wanted her to be an episode. I wanted Shane to be in the last episode, but…

Drew: I miss Gen Q Alice far more than I miss Gen Q Shane. I mean, I didn’t even notice until we were recording the podcast Shane wasn’t there, where as this, I was like, Alice is missing. Where is Alice?

Riese: And then they spot Hendrix.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Whatever the fuck, in Angie’s. But the funny part is that Angie’s like, that’s someone I used to date. And Shane’s like, which one? Because it’s like… So that was cool, I guess.

Drew: Yeah. I really did enjoy Shane Angie time together in this.

Analyssa: Yes. Yes. That’s really fun.

Drew: We go back to Dana’s. Tess is, oh god.

Analyssa: So they’re in the back room because Finley’s mom has arrived. And so Finley is kind of freaking out and Tess is like, I’ll ask her to leave.

Riese: But also…

Analyssa: I kind of think, maybe you should take this opportunity because we don’t know how much time we have with our loved ones, which…

Riese: I swear to God if no one ever says that on TV one more time. It’s such a generic… It’s such a fucking annoying platitude. Arguably. Also, we don’t know how much time we have left, so maybe you shouldn’t spend it with people who hate you..

Drew: That’s a really good point.

Analyssa: Finley says that she needs a minute and goes outside, and I thought that she was going to just bolt. I was just really ready for her to just be gone.

Riese: Steal someone’s bike again and just get on the road.

Drew: I will say that I wish we had more specifics about Finley’s mom and Finley’s family.

Analysssa: I have no more answers from when Finley’s mom arrived in the episode to the end of the episode where I’m like, oh, I understand this.

Riese: I think that there’s some things I understand a little bit more honestly, but I think the basics of what happened or basically remain that Finley was kicked out from being gay. But we also know that Finley went back for a summer that one time. So I don’t understand, how did that work out? And also Finley later says she likes her dad more their mom, so maybe they talk, I don’t know.

Drew: Also her mom says, that’s not what happened. Which maybe it is what happened, but I just…

Riese: Yeah. I thought it was what happened.

Drew: But I just mean, and things are complicated. It’s just interesting to live in that complication instead of kind of avoiding it.

Riese: Yeah. That’s a good note for the whole episode, I think.

Analyssa: Also in this back room Tess pours alcohol into a coffee mug in a subplot that I really just don’t want to talk about at all. I mean, it doesn’t really even actually become anything. It’s just running through the whole episode. Every time you see her with it in hand, you’re like, well, that’s bleak. And honestly, I think the whole episode could have happened exactly as it did without her drinking. Right. And it’s just really, again?

Riese: Again? Why? Why the relapse storyline? Also, it’s stupid. She’s walking around with that mug. She’s drinking out of it. People can smell things. Especially Finley in an unventilated back room. She wouldn’t be fooling anybody.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Yep. It sucks.

Riese: And it’s just boring and I don’t care for it.

Analyssa: Yeah. It’s not interesting storytelling on top of being just like…

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: Cruel, kind of.

Riese: Yeah. It’s cruel and what did they even do with it?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: I mean, is that why she dropped the turkey? Is that it? Because I can drop, I dropped three entrées on one girl at the Olive Garden and I was stone cold sober.

Analyssa: Instead of bolting, Finley calls Sophie and Sophie’s with her whole family for Thanksgiving.

Drew: And does something that is absolutely bonkers, which is say basically our Thanksgiving dinner is canceled. We are all going to Dana’s spend it with Finley, and then Micah does something which is bonkers, which is pops three weed gummies in his mouth, which… But is also, how much should I take? So it’s like, are you not… it’s not that, I mean, I don’t know what the dosages of those… It’s not like three is so crazy, but if he’s having to ask and they’re probably at least five, if not 10, who does that? Who goes, how many should I take? Bump, bump?

Riese: The crazy thing is he says, how many should I take? And Sophie said, “I don’t know, start with one.” And he immediately puts three in his mouth.

Drew: Which is also not Micah’s character at all. If Finley did that, then I’d be like, sure, that’s…

Riese: Right. Even Micah saying, I need to take the edge off. I was like, who are you?

Analyssa: Where did that come from?

Riese: What is going on? To what? To go talk to Finley. Also, what’s interesting is that I feel like Sophie and Finley in this episode finally showed the connection that they have that’s been missing. Now that they’re broken up for some reason now they’re actually being written normally again? The way that they care about each other and the way that Sophie, which is funny, I mean, they broke up and now Sophie’s literally moving her entire family dinner.

Drew: This is the first time I’ve ever actually seen the thing that was addressed, the musical episode, which is that Sophie’s life gets consumed with Finley. This is the first time I’m really seeing it.

Riese: Yeah, but it’s like now that Finley’s her friend, it’s okay or whatever, to which I would argue, well, maybe it’s just that you guys can’t be just friends and you should get back together so that I have something…

Analyssa: Well, you and Finley’s mom and grandma are… And Sophie’s mom and grandma are…

Riese: They’re betting money that they’re going to get back together. And then also Maribel.

Drew: Maribel’s going to propose. Her grandma loses the ring in the mashed potatoes somehow and then Sophie’s like we need to leave. But then it’s like, why would Sophie know that Mari was going to propose at Thanksgiving?

Riese: She doesn’t.

Drew: Well, I know she doesn’t, but why would she know that? They’re like, oh, close sisters. Right? Why would she not give a heads-up? So it makes no sense. Makes no sense.

Riese: If they think that the ring is in the mashed potatoes, why bring the mashed potatoes?

Analyssa: Why wouldn’t you leave the mashed potatoes at the house?

Drew: Also that. It doesn’t make sense.

Analyssa: The craziest thing to me is that this ring disappears like slight of hand. It’s like she hands it to her grandma then she looks up at her grandma and says, where is the ring? And her grandma’s like, what are you talking about? I have no idea. Where did it go?

Riese: When the actors got this script, do you think they sat and stared at each other? And they’re like, how…

Analyssa: So what did…

Riese: How are we going to pull this off?

Drew: If this script didn’t give several actors existential crises involved in the show then I don’t know what to say.

Analyssa: And it’s so funny for it to be over these really small things, but I was just sitting there staring at my screen like the ring… They think the ring fell, but it didn’t make a noise. So then where did it… It ends up just on the table under stuff, which means that somebody put it down. You would remember that.

Drew: Yeah, it makes no…

Analyssa: And if it, yeah, it fell on the… Whatever.

Drew: We then… there’s something else in this next scene, which it’s… Dre’s on the phone with the airline and trying to figure out how to get home for the holidays. And earlier they had mentioned that their mom makes stuffing with Saltines and Dani’s like problem solved, goes in the cupboard, takes out a box of Saltines. Which I asked, yes, this, the stuffing supposed to be incredible, but is the issue for Dre really the stuffing or is it seeing their family?

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: Yeah. Also, they still have to go to the store if they’re going to be making a whole Thanksgiving dinner.

Drew: I mean, they just make stuffing, but still do they have all the other things to make stuffing? I, it was, I just was like, I don’t know.

Riese: Also, Dani said she was going to do her Peloton and obviously that’s not going to fit into her schedule and that’s upsetting.

Analyssa: I don’t know. I know that travel this holiday season was a nightmare for many people. Not me though. Not to brag, but they don’t try very… It is wild that they’re like, well, there’s this flight. Oh, just kidding. It’s sold out or canceled or whatever. And then they’re like, well, guess that’s it.

Riese: I was ready for Dani to use her Delta Reserve Platinum Express card and call and get Dre on the flight.

Drew: I thought Dani was going to go home with Dre. That would’ve been fun too!

Riese: Budget. It’s not in the budget. It’s not in the budget.

Drew: At the very least, instead of it starting with Dre trying to figure out the airline stuff, it could have started with Dre hanging up the phone and going, I can’t get a flight.

Analyssa: And then I wouldn’t have all these questions.

Riese: Or my flight’s been delayed for two days, so it’s not worth it to go anymore.

Analyssa: They’re flying presumably on the holiday or the day before so it’s like…

Riese: It is the holiday.

Analyssa: So it’s like, which it’s not worth it anymore to try now that there’s just no way. So it’s an easy fix. It’s like, why am I quibbling over this?

Drew: It’s so easy. It’s just so small. There’s so much more room in the scene then for things that are actually interesting, if we don’t have the whole conversation about, “well, the eye of the storms in Chicago,” and it’s like…

Riese: The eye of the storm.

Drew: I just… It’s like it could have been so much… It just, it’s so wild how fundamental deep things are bad and then also why are you doing a relapse storyline? But we can’t really even have time to really talk about that because there’s all these small stupid things that could just so easily have been changed.

Analyssa: Because there’s a huge storm, the eye of which in Chicago.

Riese: The eye of the storm.

Drew: The next scene, all I wrote is Finley and her mom fighting. I don’t have anything else.

Riese: Finley’s mom allegedly made a reservation at Dana’s for one…

Drew: For this Thanksgiving dinner.

Analyssa:Riese: For this Thanksgiving dinner. And is generally bitching about the situation. She’s like, “there’s not a menu? I don’t get it.” And Finley’s like, “well, you should have gotten an email.” It’s very…

Riese: Yeah. And her mom was like, well, you would know I was coming if you’d answered my phone calls. Which, sure. I do feel one of the good… I do feel like we started to see the dynamic between Finley and her mom and why her mom… Her mom is a cunt as apparently she was called at somebody’s wedding. That’s true. She’s like, she’s really manipulative and mean to Finley.

Analyssa: Just so nasty.

Riese: Yeah. So it explains a lot about Finley’s personality and stuff. And I think that Jacqueline did such an amazing job this episode. This was Finley’s episode. There was so much good character work that happened, but everything else was bad.

Drew: I actually, this episode made me more than ever be like, wow, Jacqueline’s a really good actor.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Because the writing is not good and she pulled off a lot of it.

Riese: Yeah. She really did.

Analyssa: Yeah, for all of the foibles I have with the episode, none of them are about the performance or the Finley side of things really. I’m always sort of like, yeah, I’m on board.

Drew: We then go to the turkey trot and Carrie’s boss is like,

Carie’s Boss: Oh, you must be Tina!

Riese: 17 months. It has been 17 months since they broke up. 17 months.

Drew: To be fair…

Riese: A whole other Thanksgiving has already come and gone.

Drew: I do think what is slightly justified is that Carrie is very annoyed about it and is like, “Nope. Remember? She left me. It was a while.” And I do think it’s kind of making fun of this old straight man for being like, “the lesbians, it’s Carrie and Tina,” and you’re like, “no, it’s not. We’ve been broken up for over a year.” That could get that tone. Anyways, Carrie calls Misty her girlfriend, which feels very soon.

Riese & Analyssa: Five days.

Drew: Misty seems freaked out. Which, fair. And…

Riese: Starts running.

Drew: Starts running.

Riese: Back at Dana’s. The Suarezes are arriving. There is this funny point where Amari’s like, if we all came here so you can sleep with Finley, I’m going to be so pissed. Micah’s high, eating puff pastry. Why did they get Micah so high and do so little with it?

Drew: So little. All he does is eat, he doesn’t even seem high. All he does is eat a lot! It’s Thanksgiving. He can eat a lot anyways.

Riese: I mean if you watch Leo in the background, he’s doing it, he’s really trying to do it. He’s doing it. He’s doing it. But why make Micah who’s like uptight, anxious character so high?

Drew: He could’ve called Finley’s mom a cunt. He could’ve… It could’ve been like, ah, there’s so many things you could’ve done.

Riese: Why is Tess wasted and why is Micah high as a gourd? And to what end?

Drew: You know what I wish? I wish I’d taken three edibles before I watched this episode.

Riese: Nothing that happened on the show would’ve been different…

Analyssa: If they had not been.

Riese: Or even if Micah had just taken one edible and was chill.

Drew: Also, the missing ring storyline would’ve been better if she still wanted to propose and she was like, I need to find the… And they were like, bring the mashed potatoes, cause I still want to propose even though we’re going to be at Dana’s and so then it’s still looking for the ring. Instead it’s like, Micah’s high you’re not going to propose now.

Riese: That didn’t stop my parents from proposing, but they eventually got divorced. But my mom was on opium when she proposed to my father.

Drew: Wow.

Analyssa: Wow. That’s kind of iconic. Yeah.

Drew: Is that how a lesbian proposes to a straight man?

Riese: That is how a lesbians a straight man, yes.

Analyssa: We have Finley’s mom like saying hi to all of these people and immediately she insults Sophie. She basically is what happened to your hair. Which is just that Sophie has an undercut.

Mrs Finley: Oh no, what happened here?
Finley: Mom!
Mrs Finley: Well it’ll grow back!
Sophie: I’m sure it will.

I just want to say, I know that this woman is supposed to be from Kansas City and that’s actually a personal attack on me. I know that there isn’t a lot about, in the episode, about her being from Kansas City being the root of the cuntiness. But there are so many people with undercuts in Kansas City. It’s not a…

Drew: It’s a city. It’s in the name.

Analyssa: It’s not crazy haircut. I don’t know. I know that I’m very hashtag blessed to have a family that’s pretty progressive for having all been born very Catholic Mexicans in the middle of the country.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: Love them. Shout out them. But even my grandmother would never be like, “What happened to your head?” So crazy. Okay. That’s the last time. I’ll say that. It is an affront to me.

Drew: I did write down later when she says “you’re the only one who ever left Kansas City and created your own life.”

Analyssa: I can’t even… Imagine I’m the only person that everybody I know who left for a city… That’s so crazy. I can’t even. In my family alone.

Riese: She talks about Kansas City like it is a small rural town.

Analyssa: Unbelievable.

Riese: Yeah. Speaking of things that are unbelievable, we go to the charity Thanksgiving event.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: Was there something else you wanted me to mention before?

Drew: No, it’s this, I’m just confused about this…

Analyssa: No, but Micah reads the email that he has a donor. It says they have a match.

Riese: Yeah, they have a match to their preferences.

Drew: That’s how it works right?

Riese: Yeah. Well they do. They say… I guess probably you can say, these are my criteria and they’ll send you a match. But you’d probably want to check out the match, see, make sure it was a good fit for other reasons. See what…if they were, whatever. They’re… whatever. So yeah, that happens. Then we go to the Charity Thanksgiving event. And this is a really good example of why do something when you could do something more interesting?

Analyssa: Yep.

Riese: Angie says, this is a guy I used to date. He says that we could get back together at the end of the semester, which by the way is a month away. So come on. And also, at no point does she say to Shane, he was my professor.

Drew: Not once.

Riese: And there’s also no point where she start where it’s shows that she’s deliberately obscuring that fact where she starts to say it and then catches herself. Or is like, I shouldn’t… Nothing. It just isn’t mentioned. And why the fuck not? Because that would be so much more interesting and consistent with Angie’s character than her beginning to like fucking… Is this where she waxes poetic about how she wants to find love like her moms?

Drew: Yeah. Which is what? Literally, she watched her mom’s be a nightmare her whole life and literally their happy ending was driving through traffic in a chaos.

Riese: What?

Drew: It makes no sense to say, I just want to fast forward to what my moms have or to what you and Tess have. It is so…

Riese: What?

Analyssa: It’s also odd to me that Shane doesn’t clock that he’s old. To your point, Shane doesn’t clock that he looks much older than Angie at any point. Or that the woman he’s with looks much older than Angie.

Riese: Or that he’s on campus.

Drew: Which we… Unfortunately becomes relevant because he walks in, which is also just like…

Riese: Why? What is he doing there?

Drew: I don’t know.

Riese: Why is he at this charity event?

Drew: He helps…

Riese: He’s around campus because they show campus B-roll before they go to the event. So it’s somehow on campus. But like… he goes in there and they start looking at the canned goods.

Drew: Yeah.

Riese: For the homeless.

Drew: I know that professor… Adjunct professors aren’t paid a lot, but I’m sure he should not be taking those, that food.

Riese: Yeah. I don’t think it’s for him in his polo. I was so excited to finally have Angie talk to someone about this who might actually talk about it in a real way. And I cannot believe that they decided to just forego that opportunity.

Drew: And then we go back to Dana’s where for some reason they’re serving the mashed potatoes, which they didn’t even finish making. They were, it was mid-making. I was like, when did the mashed potatoes get finished? And also weren’t you saving the food for the next day to have leftovers Thanksgiving? Because there’s food at, does Dana’s not have their own mashed potatoes?

Riese: Well they were. They’re bringing it because of the ring.

Drew: I know that. But why would they be serving it?

Riese: Well, aren’t they trying not to serve it? They just brought it to look through it, but they’re trying not to serve it.

Analyssa: Micah takes it.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: But that’s not your potatoes!

Analyssa: I feel like your little head is going to pop off your shoulders.

Riese: I think they should have hid the mash potatoes under the table.

Drew: Yes.

Riese: You know what I mean?

Drew: Yes!

Riese: Right. So they have this ongoing bit where Nana’s smashing the potatoes with the… To see if the rings in there and Micah’s responses to it are cute and funny. That whole joke. That’s funny. That’s cute. So then Sophie says they play this game. This game actually sounds cute. I like it.

Analyssa: It’s really sweet.

Riese: Where they write down what they’re thankful for and they put it on a bowl and then everyone reads and I guess they guess whatever.

Drew: I like it.

Riese: And then in a personal affront, to me, a person who loves the rules of games…

Analyssa: Continue.

Riese: Finley’s mom just says out loud:

Mrs. Finley: I am thankful for my daughter Sarah.

Analyssa: Literally not the rules of the game. We just told you what we’re going to do. What the activity is for you to do it right now is so rude.

Riese: It’s unhinged and Finley’s like, well I never felt that before. And then she says she’s leaving Finley’s dad. That they got married young and Finley’s like, I have no idea what you’re talking about. She’s like, this couldn’t come as a surprise. And Finley’s like, it very much is a surprise.

Analyssa: Finley is floored.

Riese: Yeah.

Analyssa: How long has it been since Finley has lived with her parents?

Riese: I mean, it’s been two years since the summer that she spent there. Right?

Drew: That was recent. Two years is pretty recent.

Riese: Yeah. That’s recent-ish but also, I don’t know if they remember that she spent the summer there.

Drew: The writers.

Riese: Yeah. I’m not really… But that was always unclear because it was very clear to us that her parents did not want her at home and then suddenly she was there for the summer and then we went back to the way it was before, which is apparently them not wanting her at home.

Drew: Do you remember when Sophie was running to the airport? and we were all so, oh my God, this show. The chaos. How fun. There was a thruple.

Riese: Finley did say in season one that her parents slept in separate beds.

Drew: So then that seems like a sign to me.

Riese: But it was funnier that she didn’t know. I found that more entertaining as a conversation. So then her mom is like, she thought Finley would understand because, and Finley’s not saying this is bad or wrong, she’s just surprised. She thought Finley would understand because Finley’s the only person who ever left Kansas City and made a life for herself. And we’ll get to the other problems but one of the problems with this for me was that that is kind of interesting, were it feasible. That is a really interesting thought. She came here because she’s feeling like in a box in Kansas City.

Analyssa: And nobody in her community understands her.

Riese: Right. No one understands her. Finley’s gone out on her own. She came all the way here. Finley didn’t even invite her or know she’s coming. She’s still here. She’s that desperate to talk to somebody who might give her some guidance and how to start your life over again. And she actually thinks that Finley’s done a great job with her own life. And then that whole line of thought is just thrown out the window like it was literally never said. It fits with nothing that happened after and nothing that happened before.

Analyssa: Because if you’ve come here seeking that connection with your daughter, then why does any of the fight that continues to happen, why would you come in so negatively and so mean? And there’s no explanation for…

Riese: Right. Why is she here?

Analyssa: It would even be interesting if this is how my mom always is and she can’t get over herself enough to admit that she needs help.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: And look, because we… Probably, most of us have family that maybe sometimes is, I’m trying and then isn’t trying and that’s totally a real thing. But the way that it’s written does not feel like that at all. It feels completely disconnected and you’re like, why is she here? It doesn’t, doesn’t feel interesting. It doesn’t feel like, oh, she just can’t help herself, but be her normal cunty self. It’s not like that at all. It truly feels like she showed up to fight.

Analyssa: She came here to be mean. But then she said that the reason she came here, here is to look for some connection that she needs. Not even something that Finley needed.

Drew: Right.

Riese: And it’s realistic. It could be real. You just were saying with families to sometimes see that one way and someplace be another, but we only have, I don’t know, 10 minutes with this character. We don’t have time to do that. They need to pick a story.

Analyssa: Right.

Riese: And stick with it. I have no idea what this woman is doing in this town at this time.

Analyssa: What does she want? What did she hope to accomplish on this day?

Drew: It’s truly the most basic storytelling. It’s just such basic, like, what is this character’s motivation?

Riese: Right. I feel like…

Drew: What is the character’s goal? Desire. What is the arc of these char… It’s all these basic things and it’s just like, it’s so wild.

Riese: I feel like she did, her presence enabled us to do a lot of character work with Finley, but her on her own still doesn’t make sense. Which happens with a lot of their one-off characters.

Analyssa: So Finley gets sort of corralled by Tess and Sophie.

Riese: Finley goes into the back room cause she’s upset. And Sophie and Tess both go back there to try to help her.

Analyssa: They’re both sort of giving her—

Riese: Similarish advice?

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: Until Finley’s like, I should do amends. And Sophie’s like, I don’t think this is the right time. And Tess is like you should. Which I guess I’m also confused with, are we supposed to think that because Tess relapsed, she also has forgotten how…

Riese: I mean, has she ever been good at being…

Analyssa: So yeah, they have a conversation about how Finley’s going to take control of this situation by doing her amends, which

Riese: On the clock.

Analyssa: Yeah. First of all…

Riese: During a family meal.

Analyssa: First of all, she’s working. There’s a huge event at Dana’s right now. Okay. It’s not the time. She also hasn’t written her amends to her mom yet, which…

Drew: No, no. We’re going to get a writing montage. I’m joking.

Analyssa: But she has nothing prepared at all, which everyone is different but that’s a huge jump to make. It’s like, oh, I’m going to do it right now. If you have nothing, you haven’t even written it out.

Drew: Yeah. It’s also just so wild because if the storyline in this episode for Tess wasn’t that she relapsed, Tess could’ve been on the other side of this debate and it could’ve been a sign of Sophie trying to manage Finley’s feelings and trying to help and being over-involved in helping and being like, yeah, that sounds great. You could totally make it amends with her, but whatever.

Analyssa: And Tess being the sort of older, wiser mentor figure being, actually this might not be the right time. This is, but like…

Riese: If anyone was going to be wasted this episode, I really felt like it should have been Finley’s mom. And that could have given us a lot of insight into the way that Finley was raised and the way that… What she grew up around and how we got there from here. That would make even her giving amends at least more interesting but also, I don’t understand why this show really just doesn’t want Finley to ever do amends with anybody in a way that is actually going to be good.

Analyssa: And feel cathartic for her in the way that it’s supposed to —

Riese: and to be be doing it in public at a table where other people can…

Drew: Someone must be sober in the writer’s…. Like there must be someone who has some knowledge. What’s happening?

Riese: Also, it’s not, I mean, you can Google. A lot of meetings are closed, but you can go to a meeting. Anyone of this writing staff could go to a meeting or read the book or whatever.

Drew: It’s just weird for sobriety to be such a big part of Gen Q. From the beginning being on a through line and just there’d be no… I just don’t….

Analyssa: There’s also just so many people in LA, not especially queer people, but if you are in queer community, you know people who have done AA. It’s just not hard to… So even if no one in the writer’s room has experienced that, which I would be shocked. I guarantee you of writer’s room of 10 people would have a one friend who was in it.

Riese: Or an ex or a current partner or an ex and a current partner.

Drew: Aren’t you worried that… not worried but aren’t you aware that given that you’re dealing with something that so many people have personal knowledge of that to then put it in your show, it’s going to distract them?

Analyssa: And feel intensely connected to. The process of that is something that people have so many feelings about. It’s so absurd. It’s not Finley’s mom saying Kansas City in a derogatory tone, which only hurt my feelings probably. It is something that many people will be like, wait, what the fuck?

Riese: Yeah. I mean I feel like in general shows and movies do a bad job representing AA, but I don’t see why this show couldn’t strike out and do it correctly.

Analyssa: Be brave.

Riese: Be brave. Yes, I want to see them be brave.

Drew: It is interesting. I don’t know how either of you feel about this, but when I interviewed Mae Martin about the first season of Feel Good, I had heard criticisms from people about the way that AA was shown or meetings were shown. And so I asked them about it and they were like, yeah, this isn’t meant to be a formal AA meeting and I tried to make it so it was structured different so it didn’t seem like I was referring to that and I picked this format because it is more compelling to watch on screen. So it is fake and jokey and whatever, and that is what it is. But it’s a comedy show. And it was like, okay, even if you disagree with that, there was some thought put into that. There was some thought put into that. There was some internal logic to it, whereas this feels so baffling.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Analyssa: Yeah and then Tess sort of tells Sophie to mind her business during all this at the end.

Riese: Yeah. She’s like, Finley’s a big girl. I’m like, what are you talking… As she wasn’t… Because obviously she’s telling Sophie mind your business because Finley’s not her girlfriend anymore. But what does that have to do with Finley being a big or a small girl?

Analyssa: And it’s very clear from this episode, Finley actually does need the support of a lot of people, which is not a knock. It’s just what she’s in the market for right now. So it is bizarre.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: We go back to Angie and Shane and Shane is like, I’m going to help sneak you out. And Angie’s like, what about the hungry? And Shane is like, I’ll write them a check. Just like, okay.

Analyssa: I did think this was cute, them loading Angie up into the little cart and like, is this when they run into the teacher and he’s like, can I have one of these? Which again, why are you here? And Shane is like, they’re for the hungry or whatever she says, which is…

Drew: It feels very weird. I’m just like…

Riese: I did laugh. I was like, well that’s funny.

Drew: It’s not the Shane saying I’ll write them a check. That feels Shane to me. It’s more of Angie being the hungry, the people who are here to eat Thanksgiving food. Like, can we… I don’t understand.

Riese: Shortly thereafter, we find out that Shane is also hungry.

Drew: I don’t understand. I mean I, we’ve established that they don’t know how to write the Gen Z, but…

Analyssa: The Gen Z. And actually we do.

Riese: Yes. As you can see, we’re very tuned in. We have our finger on a lot of young pulses.

Drew: But I just am like, I don’t understand what they want Angie’s politics to be and what her political awareness is.

Riese: I mean, she had a $5,000 duffle bag last week, guys, so.

Drew: I guess maybe it’s true. I mean it was funny that the way she was serving the potatoes was, and I was like, well, she is the daughter of Rich lesbians, so she probably has never served mashed potatoes.

Analyssa: Fully grew up in Brentwood. I read that in your recap about her duffle bag and really lost my mind. It was very funny.

Riese: And it was weird ’cause they showed it really intensely Twice.

Analyssa: Prominently. Yeah.

Riese: Anyhow, so Angie’s out. Yay. Turkey trots.

Drew: Carrie apologizes for calling Misty her girlfriend and Misty’s like, I have to poop.

Riese: Yeah.

Drew: Okay.

Analyssa: Oh right, because earlier in the morning…

Riese: Just so you know, it’ll take her 45 minutes.

Analyssa: They’re at a reservoir. No, it’s going to take so long.

Drew: Why would they go to Dana’s?

Analyssa: Because that’s where everybody is this episode, Drew.

Drew: I didn’t think about that. I didn’t know that.

Riese: LA is this big.

Analyssa: Because when you have to shit urgently, you need to find the closest location that has the most of your friends in it.

Drew: Those are good points. Because that’s what everyone wants to do is shit around a bunch of people.

Riese: I’d be like everyone I’m trying to impress…

Analyssa: At a place that has one staff bathroom that is horrifying. It’s because Finley made her coffee earlier in the morning, which is actually very relatable to me. That will mess me up for a whole day.

Riese: If I were her though, I would want to find… I’d be like where… I would just disown… I would leave Carrie and just find a whole new life, a whole new family and use their bathroom and then never see them again. I’m gone. Straight to Dana’s. I thought they were walking over the porta potty, whatever.

Analyssa: I thought they were going to use a porta potty. I was like, oh, there’s, they’re outside. There has to be a little restroom. Having to do that waddle all the way back to Dana’s from the Silver Lake Reservoir is so hot.

Riese: She should’ve just gotten on side the road and just popped a squat. That’s how they did it in nature.

Analyssa: Yeah, it’s true.

Riese: Have you ever seen Planet of the Apes?

Drew: I thought you were going to say Bridesmaids.

Analyssa: Bridesmaids happen just right in the middle of the street.

Drew: Then Dani… Dre’s like, do you have a whatever,

Riese: A Bree.

Drew: A Bree.

Riese: And I would’ve been like, no, I have a Gouda.

Drew: And they’re like, is it Sophie? And Dani’s like, what? No. And it’s like, how long were Dani and Sophie together? Because I feel like the show is wanting me to think they were together for a year and then got engaged. They were together for like eight years, right?

Riese: Oh, I don’t think that long.

Drew: A long time though. Anyways.

Riese: Several years.

Drew: Anyway, Dani’s like, it’s Roxy and talks about Roxy and then…

Riese: Why did we get all this information about Roxy now? They were in daycare together. They hooked up in high school.

Drew: I want Roxy on the show.

Analyssa: They’ve known each other their whole lives.

Drew: What if… I have a theory. .

Riese: Like Roxy… if someone was coming in who I know my whole life, I wouldn’t be, the most important thing about this person is that they’re my bad friend.

Analyssa: It’s that lifelong friend who I have always had a weird thing with.

Riese: And especially, I mean, I don’t have this, but I feel like people who have someone in their life who has been their friends since they were really young and they both turned out queer, that is a weird, very special bond.

Drew: I have one of those. We don’t hook up though.

Analyssa: But it’s feel, I mean, that’s what you would lead with. You know what I mean? This is somebody who you’re very close to.

Riese: That is what you lead with when you talk about [inaudible 00:43:03].

Drew: Oh, what I was going to say is that I like Dani and Dre. I like Dani and Gigi. I like Dani and Roxy. What if everyone else goes away? We get It’s Dani spinoff.

Riese: It’s Dani.

Drew: It’s Dani.

Riese: Dani’s Home.

Drew: Dani’s Home. And it’s her various relationships and lovers.

Riese: Like Scandal except that she’s dated everybody in her firm.

Drew: Yeah. Speaking of backstory. Dani’s telling Dre is like, my mom is dead and my dad’s in prison.

Riese: Yeah. I did find this relatable in terms of someone just trying to be like, so what do your parents do when you’re like, he’s dead. And then they’re like, wow, this is really supposed to be a nice fun conversation. And now it’s a bad one. You know what I mean? Well, it’s so awkward, especially when it happens when you’re relatively young and you just have to spend the rest of your life having that awkward conversation. So I felt like that was great and authentic and good job to everybody.

Drew: Good job for that.

Riese: They were great together.

Drew: Dre is like my Thanksgivings were loud and Dani’s like, if you want loud, and I was like, wait, but what about Finley seeing Dre and all of that and…

Riese: Oh right. I forgot about that.

Drew: An adventure.

Analyssa: As soon as they walked in, I was like, wouldn’t this be really stressful for everyone involved? Sophie just drunkenly kissed Dre a week ago. Oh, isn’t this crazy?

Drew: We then get maybe the wildest scene of this episode, which is the writing montage. I’m just fascinated by the way writing is shown on screen because it’s a very uncinematic thing. And so I always find it very entertaining to watch shows and movies try to create some sort of… Which is why I’m pro circus. I love a choice. This is, instead of just having…

Riese: That opinion is a choice.

Drew: Instead of having Finley writing then crossing things out and the music is this song and…

Riese: She could’ve been envisioning herself at the circus, waking up in the dirt with the Ferris Wheel.

Drew: Well, you know what I…

Riese: Yes, exactly.

Drew: Do you know what I would’ve not minded?

Riese: What?

Drew: A montage of flashbacks. Yeah. We don’t need that. There’s better, there’s more interesting choices.

Riese: Oh my God, and who would play Little Finley? A little tomboy.

Drew: Aww. Yeah. But we don’t get that. We just get this weird writing montage and then we go to Sophie doing a land acknowledgement. And then Finley’s moms, what about the Mayflower? And then there’s some back and forth that honestly has the political sharpness of the Thanksgiving episodes of Friends. It’s like where you’re like, Thanksgiving’s bad, right? And you’re just like, cool, thanks for addressing this. Thumbs up. You’re good liberals. But it is just, I guess one more thing with Finley’s mom where, yeah…

Riese: So then Finley is like, this would be the perfect moment for me to sit down on this chair next to my dear mother and do my amends for her that I just wrote. And it begins honestly, beautifully. And it was gorgeous. The writing that montage, that process clearly worked because Finley’s very first statement is, I’m sorry for getting drunk and calling you a cunt at whoever’s wedding. Which is like, that’s just,

Analyssa: Mwah. Big chef’s kiss to that one.

Riese: No chef’s kiss for the turkey, but a big chef’s kiss for that one. And of course I think she’s raised Catholic, right? Isn’t that the history?

Analyssa: Christian of some sort, yeah.

Riese: Yeah. So her mom basically is like, we don’t have to talk about our feelings. That’s too much. There’s sort of a big explosion because Finley’s like, I just want to apologize for embarrassing you or whatever. And then Finley’s mom is basically, you embarrass me all the time. There’s just some things you don’t remember or something.

Analyssa: Yeah. So a couple things. Number one, if you have to do your amends in that little voice that you do at a party where you talk under your voice to just the person next to you? Bad. Do it somewhere where you can actually speak at your full volume. That’s just a helpful tip. And then the thing about this that maybe is nitpicking, because it’s so small, but drove me nuts. It’s like, okay, so this is a woman who’s intensely afraid of being embarrassed or hates being embarrassed. That’s something that she resents Finley for, is having embarrassed her her whole life. So she has decided to fly to Los Angeles to be in a room full of strangers to yell at her daughter in front of a room full of strangers. That seems deeply embarrassing to me and of her own making. So I was like, again, Finley, I’m begging. Please stop springing your amends on people when they say, no, I don’t really want to talk about this right now. It’s not a sign to continue to barrel through and be like, no, no, no, I just have to apologize. That’s not correct. But her mom’s reaction is insane. And I get that’s the point. I’m supposed to think that her mom is the big bad villain of her life. Fair, but there’s no subtlety, there’s no anything. It’s not even a good portrayal of a person that exists who is so worried about appearances and upkeep that she is cruel to the people she loves for embarrassing, but minor transgressions. This is so unhinged.

Riese: Right. I mean, I think this is another situation where it would make sense if she was also an alcoholic where she doesn’t realize that she’s also embarrassing herself because she’s not with it, you know what I mean?

Analyssa: I also thought for a brief second that she might be a lesbian.

Drew: Oh yeah. Right.

Riese: That was what I…

Riese: The jacket. The whole sort of Mary McCormick’s vibe has always been intensely lesbian.

Analyssa: There are just people who have a vibe that are like, yeah, she has a vibe.

Riese: That’s a queer person or a queer character.

Drew: I just think we would learn more if Finley was doing these amends in a way that was—

Analyssa: Correct?

Drew: Correct. And then her mom reacted poorly we would learn something more about her mom.

Analyssa: Or the day is going really well. And so Finley is like, okay, I’m going to actually try to make my amends. I thought that I wasn’t ready, but she’s here and we are kind of coasting through the… There’s been some bumps, but it’s okay, let me try. And then it explodes. This was just like…

Riese: Yeah. I would’ve loved even for them to try… If she wants to do it, to take her aside and have it be just the two of them and then we’d get a lot more out of it. But I guess they wanted everybody to see it or whatever. But then, that’s when Dre and Dani show up and Dre’s like, “Hmm, this is actually a pretty quiet Thanksgiving.” Because everybody is still in shock that Finley’s mom is who she is and is saying the things that she’s saying.

Drew: And then Finley leaves and Sophie runs after her. Then we go back to Angie and Shane. They see the Hendrix’s car and Angie sees the Chatbook in the back.

Riese: Brutal. To see your little handmade gift and the thrown in the back seat of someone’s car.

Drew: Truly is.

Riese: Like a Burger King wrapper.

Drew: And Shane is like, you’re better than I was at your age. I would’ve broken the window, so.

Riese: Would she? I think Shane just would walked away.

Analyssa: I feel like Shane wouldn’t have given anyone anything sentimental at this age, actually.

Drew: Shane would’ve done a bunch of drugs and had a threesome.

Riese: Or I guess fallen asleep in her truck outside of the house.

Drew: It was like other people giving Shane gifts that she was discarding actually.

Riese: Yeah. It was other people throwing rocks through Shane’s window.

Drew: But then Angie a piece of the things that are a parking spot. You know what I’m talking about and then throws it at the window, takes the chapbook, and then Hendrix shows up soon after.

Riese: And as you can hear the alarms in the background.

Drew: And then looks in the back and sees that the book’s gone and knows that it was Angie. Which it’s like, don’t fuck 18 year olds if you don’t want them to act childish.

Riese: Right. Also, Shane was like, do you want to take his parking pass? And I’m like, is that his faculty parking pass? Is there any way this could possibly still come up? Maybe?

Analyssa: They do an extended bit about calling the cops. Hendrix and the woman he’s with, which I was just like, we don’t need to get into it. We’ve already talked about this on multiple episodes, but there’s a real leaning into calling the cops this season in a way that I’m like, what are we doing? I did think that it was very funny that Shane was like Angie, no, stop, stop, stop and then was just clearing off the glass so that she was not getting cut. It’s very fun, gay aunt instead of responsible one, which I loved.

Riese: Wouldn’t it have been even more meaningful if Shane had also been mad at this man because she knew that he was her professor, right?

Drew: Yes. It would have been.

Analyssa: And she felt like it was justified because someone took advantage of an 18 year old.

Riese: Why did they set this up for so long. Oh my God.

Drew: Then we go back to Finley crying about her mom. And then…

Riese: I thought this was good though.

Analyssa: I really liked this scene.

Drew: Finley and Sophie kiss.

Analyssa: Sophie gives her a really sweet speech about how much light she brings to the world and how everybody loves her. And I really enjoyed this, especially the way that we’ve been talking about Carrie being in Finley’s life and being like, I’m not going to leave you. It’s just so important to have people who remind you that you are good. The people who get in your head are not the correct ones. We are here because you are good inherently. Because Finley’s just talking about feeling an idiot and wanting her mom to not hate her and I don’t know, I just really liked it.

Riese: Yes, I saw this really sweet moment between them and I was really glad that they kissed because I thought finally they’re getting back together.

Analyssa: And then they are busted by Misty who has to poop in this one bathroom as previously discussed. I guess they’re busted by Carrie, but Carrie is bringing Misty to the bathroom. Finley and Sophie go back out and Finley’s mom is still there, which is not what I would do if I had just caused a scene. I would’ve left.

Drew: Also, what about all of these queers who showed up to Dana’s being safe space for Thanksgiving and then it’s like, it’s just this homophobic lady screaming.

Analyssa: There’s a comment here from Sophie’s family about them getting back together because Finley and Sophie come back to the dinner table together and Finley’s mom is like, you guys dated? I didn’t even know she was gay—

Riese & Analyssa: —she’s so pretty.

Analyssa: I’m like, what is going on here?

Drew: What year is this?

Riese: Also, I would be more believable if she was like, she’s so feminine. But obviously they couldn’t have her say that because she’s not. But I’m just like, there’s nothing, what are you talking about?

Analyssa: Her daughter is gay and very pretty. It doesn’t make any sense. Again, I need desperately to know where every single writer in this writer room is from because it does have such… She’s from the Midwest, she’s not from California. That’s why she doesn’t get it. Which is like, it’s just not how it is.

Riese: Yeah. Gay people literally live everywhere.

Drew: It’s also a greatest hits of boring lines from other shows where people were homophobic. But they also contradict each other because it’s like the, I don’t know, all of it’s so confusing.

Riese: Also, she just commented on Sophie’s hair we were saying earlier. That was her first comment to her was like, what’s wrong with your hair? And now she’s saying, “oh, I thought you were too pretty to be gay.” I mean it’s a fun… There was a moment where it did feel like the whole cast is sort of coming together in a way. And it was really nice when she was like who are you and Carrie was like,

Carrie: I’m Carrie, I’m the one who’s been filling in your absence.

Riese: I was like, yeah, that’s right. Go. And I was like, this is nice and is nice for Finley. So I guess there’s that.

Analyssa: But then Finley tries to stop in. So Carrie says that. Yeah, and Finley’s mom is like, great, well, hope you’re ready to take care of all her problems.

Riese: Yeah, clean up all her messes. Hope you like cleaning up messes. I’m like, what’s wrong with you?

Analyssa: Also, she has not lived with them in years and years, so you don’t have any idea what kind of messes, again, maybe two for the summer, but whatever. And then her mom… So Finley tries to kind of quash the situation and her mom really escalates it and starts screaming. I didn’t take notes on what she says except for the line where she says, you need to be on medication. Which is like…

Riese: I was like, oh my God.

Drew: The question is, does Finley’s mom think that Finley is a disastrous fuck up or does she think that she’s the only one to ever leave Kansas City and make a life for herself? Those feel contradictory.

Riese: That contradicts this also. But I do think it’s possible to read this as her mom is intensely religious and homophobic and so just that she cannot help herself from immediately just going in the way that on television, religious, homophobic people do to gay people where no matter how much she might have decided to have some composure that she thinks that Finley is just this giant mess. But also that doesn’t fit with you’re the only one who left Kansas City. You build this beautiful life for yourself and might make more sense. I don’t know if she was resentful that Finley was sober and she wasn’t and was resentful of Finley’s success. Just something that’s happened since she arrived in that room and saw Finley that has in some way triggered her. You know what I mean?

Analyssa: It’s been like festering this whole day. She watching it and becoming seething with it. I just… You need to be on medication. I need so many… I have to ask this woman 16 questions about that specific thing said to her daughter who she hasn’t seen in years.

Riese: I assume that was about being gay.

Analyssa: Medication for what?

Riese: For being gay.

Analyssa: They make a pill for that?

Drew: She doesn’t even come across as a homophobe. I mean, I know that she is, but she doesn’t come across as that kind. She comes across as the same kind of, I don’t know… She doesn’t feel like that kind of religious zealot.

Riese: Right. Also, because she’s leaving Finley’s father.

Drew: Yeah. And she’s spending Thanksgiving in a lesbian bar.

Riese: In Heathenville.

Analyssa: She’s not looking at all the people around. Well, maybe, I guess we’ve been led to believe that she doesn’t know that all the people in here are because he think they’re just pals.

Riese: Yeah. They’re just girlfriends. Girls who are friends.

Drew: It makes no sense.

Analyssa: It doesn’t make any sense.

Drew: Makes no sense. Then my next note is Micah is still high, but not really acting high. He’s just eating a lot.

Riese: Right. Which, haha,

Analyssa: Wait, but there’s a scene here where Carrie tells…

Drew: Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave.

Analyssa: So Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave and then hugs Finley and calls everybody over to like…

Riese: Wait, we forgot about the turkey drop.

Analyssa: Oh, did I skip past already? Oh okay.

Riese: So Tess drops a Turkey. I have questions about this meal.

Analyssa: In Finley’s mom’s lap, which I wish had been purposeful.

Drew: Yeah, that would’ve been fun.

Analyssa: Because we get some, like you said, when the cast all kind of assembles around the table, when Finley’s mom says Sophie’s too pretty to be gay. All the cast is sort of side eyeing each other like this bitch. It would’ve been so funny.

Riese: And they all make, there’s lots of little comments around the table that were funny too.

Analyssa: It would’ve been so funny if Tess was like, whoops.

Riese: Yeah. A sober Tess had been like, whoops.

Drew: Also, this is a minor note, but a Turkey is the least funny thing to be dropped from the Thanksgiving table. It’s the end of the meal. What about a pumpkin pie? That’s gooey.

Riese: What about green bean casserole? She’s from the Midwest. Come on.

Analyssa: Cranberry sauce.

Drew: Cranberry sauce. Like a turkey? Also, why does she throw it on the floor? That’s really how I knew that Finley’s mom was ac cunt is that she just, it’s on her lap and she just flops it off. Put it on the damn table.

Riese: Put it on the table unless it burns. Unless it’s burning. Also, why is, I assume they do the turkey because it’s not as messy to do multiple takes.

Drew: I see, sure.

Riese: But also, is that really how film works? I don’t know anything.

Analyssa: A whole bowl of rolls.

Riese: I would’ve dropped a bucket of blood on her like Carrie or maybe slime. The Nickelodeon old days. And there’s a part where she said to Finley, I was hoping you’d change. And Finley was like, I have. And I was like, that’s good character development.

Analyssa: But again, I’m hoping you change does not square with you’re the only person who left Kansas City and made a life for yourself. Okay then Carrie tells Finley’s mom to leave. We’ve had enough, two hours too late I think. And then Carrie gives Finley a hug and she asks everybody to come in and give Finley a hug. And I did cry.

Riese: I just thought, I’m so happy for Finley that she has this wonderful caretaker. What a nice thing.

Drew: I thought it’s so strange for a television episode to be written where every writer in the room can only say one word and then you just go around the room like that old camp game where you had to tell a story that way. What an interesting way to write a screenplay.

Riese: So then…

Drew: Oh, then Micah’s high and eating and I guess then they never found the ring and they’re like, we never found the ring. And I was like, did he eat it?

Riese: Yeah. Then everybody’s in the bathroom. Isn’t that funny? Wouldn’t that be funny?

Drew: And then Sophie says that she still wants to be friends and Finley says that she’s still in love and so can’t be friends for some time. Which, I’m sorry.

Riese: What has been going on all this time?

Drew: Yeah, I don’t really know. And then Finley does say something about being thankful for all… Says I love all of you and says even you Dre. And I was like, oh. So we did acknowledge it. What?

Riese: Oh was she talking to Dre? I thought she was talking to Dani.

Drew: Oh, I thought she was talking to Dre.

Riese: That would’ve been really funny if she was talking to Dre. That would’ve been a bold statement.

Analyssa: No. Yeah. I think she says even you for now or today or something. And it’s about her and Dani.

Drew: Oh, I thought it was to Dre because she and Dani made up episodes ago.

Riese: Also then she’s like, well I got your pie or something. I was just like, what?

Analyssa: They’re doing…

Riese: That’s sounded weird. That’s not a really special thing to know about someone. What kind of pie they like. Couldn’t they try a little bit harder with that. Just a little harder. These are good actors. They can do a good job if you write good work.

Drew: My favorite kind of pie is whatever…

Analyssa: I was just about to say, I actually know Drew’s favorite kind of pie.

Drew: What’s my favorite pie?

Analyssa: Drew’s favorite kind of pie is whatever pie is the specialty at the place that she’s getting the pie from.

Drew: Correct. I love most flavors of pies. And when you sometimes go to a pie shop and they’re like, we are known for our cranberry dark chocolate crumble or whatever.

Riese: No ’cause I never talk to people but I can imagine.

Drew: Or it could be written somewhere. Where you’re like, oh well that’s not something that’s at every pie shop. I mean, I love a pumpkin. I love an apple. Yeah, I love… Pie’s my favorite dessert. Pie with a scoop of ice cream. Ooh. Amazing.

Riese: Were they eating sides for an hour and then they were all going to eat Turkey as a main course?

Analyssa: It’s in my notes. What did the people at Dana’s eat? What did they serve that day? I don’t know.

Riese: Because they were all eating, they were eating way before the turkey came. So those were, and then also…

Analyssa: Appetizers?

Drew: It’s actually, it’s not a turkey, it’s a cake.

Riese: Oh it’s a cake. And was that turkey for everyone who were…

Drew: They didn’t know that all these people were going to be there. It was all surprise friends because Finley’s mom.

Riese: Even though they had to make reservations.

Drew: So I don’t know how many turkeys they made. Who’s cooking?

Riese: I wish that Finley’s mom had made a… Because at first when she was sitting alone at the table for 10, I was like, she made a reservation for 10. Who else is coming? And it was like, I don’t know her only friends in LA like Rick Caruso and some girl she knew in college. Katy Perry. So who wants to be friends? So they’re like, oh, we never read the gratitude.

Analyssa: And also Carrie tells Finley she’s really proud of her and she stood her ground today and stood in her truth.

Riese: And I just love their relationship so much. And I loved how it was portrayed in this episode as well. And how Carrie stuck for her. Cause I think it’s really cool to have, if your butch lesbian Rosie O’Donnell mom is standing up to your shitty whatever.

Drew: And that’s why she has to die.

Analyssa: I was going to say, lovely intergenerational queer relationship you got there. Would be a shame if somebody did something to it.

Drew: But before that, Micah reveals about the donor… Oh, because the note says something about a donor and then Carrie’s like organ or baby, which was, that got my biggest laugh in the episode.

Riese: This was so annoying to me. Why is everyone cheering that you found a donor?

Drew: It makes no sense.

Riese: Who cares?

Analyssa: It doesn’t make sense.

Riese: Of course you found… Eventually people find donors and also they didn’t yet. They don’t know anything about this man. I mean, whatever.

Drew: It makes no sense.

Riese: The way everyone was cheering. And the moment I saw it, I thought when I re-watch this to outline the episode, cause I have to watch it once the screencap and then next I was like, I’m going to have to fast forward through the scene because it’s like rage courses through my body. They’re like, Oh my God! What? When has this ever happened? Oh my God. Just watch they’re going to go home and they’re going to be like, sorry, all the vials are sold out. And they’ll be like, oh I wish we hadn’t done that. Wish we just cheers to Finley like Carrie asked us to. Or no, Dani proposed the cheers to Finley.

Analyssa: Dani makes a toast to Finley. That’s another…

Riese: She’s like Pink. She raises her glass.

Analyssa: Step forward. They’ve really made…

Drew: I feel like we’re past… The show’s forgotten. It’s all good with this.

Riese: Oh, I thought it was funny though that their mom says the same thing every year.

Drew: Oh that was…

Analyssa: That was cute.

Riese: Yeah, it was like Sophie’s family is cute and lovely and I think was also nice to show that the family that is the most intact for all of these people is one that doesn’t, the dad left and it doesn’t matter. They’re still the coolest family and the most supportive and most loving.

Drew: And then back at Carrie’s house, oh boy, Carrie has a heart attack.

Riese: She says her arm hurts and I was like, oh no. And she fucking collapses. And I’m just like…

Analyssa: They did a truly grim thing to Rosie’s makeup.

Drew: Yeah. It looked, I was like, what’s going on? And then I found out.

Analyssa: So scary.

Riese: Also her being one of the only characters who isn’t super thin.

Drew: Yeah. It sucks.

Riese: And her being one of the only butch characters. I mean I know that it’s like Rosie also talks about how she hates exercise and stuff. But come on guys. Rosie’s so good. And she really does…

Drew: She sells everything.

Riese: Every scene she’s in. And I probably said this about people and haven’t really meant it, but I really truly mean it. Whatever lines they write for Rosie, no matter how weird, she just kills it.

Analyssa: And it’s incredibly endearing, the whole character of Carrie. But when you think about the pieces that have gone into the humor around the character of Carrie, you’re like, this is shitty, maybe.

Riese: Yeah like giving her a fucking heart attack ’cause she ran a little bit today? Come on.

Analyssa: It’s terrible.

Drew: And then Tess drinking.

Riese: Tess drinking. And then she starts reading some absolutely inane thing to her mom who none of us really know or care about. I am thankful that you taught me… I can’t remember a word of it because it was the least memorable thing anyone has ever said on any television show ever and I watched all 17,000 seasons of Glee.

Analyssa: I wrote them all down.

Riese: You did?

Analyssa: Yes because it was interesting to me, the people that they happened to coincide directly with the little montage that we are given of all of our characters.

Drew: Also wait, before Tess texts Shane and says, miss you.

Riese: Right.

Analyssa: She’s thankful that her mom taught her that rules are meant to be broken. And we see a little insert of Angie and Shane with their arms around each other. Get it? Cause they broke rules today. We have the power to make the family we choose and we’re with the Suarezes—

Riese: Biological family.

Analyssa: Biological family, but ok. And Maribel is proposing to Micah and they all watch. So in that way we have chosen a family member. When something good comes into your life, you should hold onto it. And Dani and Dre kiss. And then I’m thankful you taught me every moment on this earth is a gift. And Tess scatters her mom’s ashes. And then it cuts to Finley like doing CPR on Carrie while she’s on the phone with 911.

Riese: It felt like someone had walked into my apartment and taken two rusty nails from the bottom of the good ship lollipop and stuffed them into my eyes. I assume Carrie’s going to live because it would be really fucking gutsy of them to literally kill her.

Drew: It would be… There’s no way. I mean it’s how I felt when Gigi was hit by the car.

Analyssa: Yeah.

Drew: I was like…

Analyssa: They just can’t.

Drew: You’re not going to kill anyone.

Riese: You can’t like… You’ve already offscreen killed Kit and Jenny, which was brutal for both of them. And I mean Jenny was already dead. So I guess technically you’ve just offscreen killed Kit, but you’ve also offscreen killed Marcus Allenwood and we just don’t need it. And also this episode doesn’t need this because what if this episode’s doing really well, is building this relationship, is finally giving Finley who’s had a rough go of it, something to hold and that is actually going really fucking well. Why would you do this? And the cheapness of that ending.

Drew: It’s awful.

Riese: Same thing with Gigi getting T-boned. It’s just so fucking cheap. It’s so easy. It’s so boring. And it’s so…

Drew: It’s not a cliffhanger also because again, we have the level of there’s no way. There’s just no way. So it’s not a cliffhanger. It’s like why did you do that?

Riese: Yeah. What I’m wondering at the end of the episode, what I want to know for next week is, why the fuck did you do that? I don’t want to know… That’s what I want to know.

Drew: I don’t understand why you would be granted the privilege of making The L Word and this is what you get.

Riese: And having Rosie O’Donnell.

Analyssa: Right. Rosie O’Donnell is guest starring and

Riese: And saying she loves it! She always says nice things about being on the set and she enjoys it.

Drew: It’s just so wild that the original L Word is so much better than Gen Q when that original L Word is such a fucking mess. I mean obviously there are certain things that are better but not nearly enough. What did we learn in those years away?

Analyssa: I just feel so often the plot lines, I understand that they are not real humans who have real feelings. They are characters in a TV show. I don’t understand why the plot lines are so cruel to them. It just feels like—

Drew: It’s because they’re not… It’s lazy writing because they can’t think of… They can’t sustain any sort of conflict. Stories need conflict and they can’t sustain conflict that isn’t from “The Soap Opera Book of 12 Boring Choices.”

Riese: And also, I don’t think twice in one 10 episode season you can end on a “will they or won’t they die” cliffhanger.

Drew: Maybe if you’re doing…

Riese: They just killed Tess’ mom.

Drew: Yeah. If you’re doing an action show or your show is about soldiers in World War II?

Riese: Yeah. Or it’s like you’re doing The Walking Dead or it’s True Blood or I don’t know, Westworld.

Drew: But it’s The L Word: Generation Q. Can you please stop.

Riese: If you’re doing like Battle Royale, if you’re doing The Squid Game.

Drew: They only know how to…

Riese: This is The Squid Game. Basically.

Drew: They know how to kill, almost kill, cheating, breakup and lie.

Analyssa: I was like, oh, this is a perfect “and lie” joke.

Riese: And again, no sex scenes.

Drew: No sex scenes.

Analyssa: Nope. Just one kiss.

Riese: Just one kiss. Isn’t that a song?

Analyssa: One kiss is all it takes. I disagree.

Riese: I think we need a few more. A few more kisses.

Drew: Okay. Well, and that’s, that’s all right?

Riese: And that’s all she wrote.

Drew: The fact that I’m so happy there are only two more episodes is such a bummer. I shouldn’t be happy about that. I should be sad.

Riese: I’m sad because I’m nervous that the things that I want to happen are not going to happen in time. But it’s just so disappointing and I don’t understand, because I have tried so hard this season with the podcast and the recap to be as positive as possible and give it the benefit of the doubt beyond reason. Did I say this last season? Maybe I did because the same thing started happening this last few episodes just went…

Drew: I’m now remembering why the finale, I was like, I’m not coming back next season. And I did and now look.

Riese: They get feedback, right? So what’s going on? I mean, I guess who, it’s funny because, whatever. I mean it doesn’t ultimately matter. Nothing really matters. We’re all going to die.

Analyssa: I was going to say, what? What’s a little bumper?

Riese: What’s a little bumper? We’re all going to die someday. But I think it’s frustrating maybe because we like these people and we love this franchise and I would like it to continue.

Drew: I love the cast.

Riese: I love the cast.

Drew: I love new people who were brought on this year. I love Kehlani. I love Joey Lauren Adams. I love Dre. It just shows how famous various people are who I refer to by character names. But I like Roxy. They’ve brought on really good new characters. Carrie’s been a bigger part of it. That’s been great.

Analyssa: And I feel like we’ve been, so the show’s iteration of Bette and Tina are gone. Actually watching Alice lead episodes or watching Shane centric episodes, that’s been really fun and exciting. And just… By episode… I feel like this has happened. This happened last year and this year that it’s by episode seven or eight you’re kind of like where do we go from here? And it just gets frustrating because I want nothing more than to just be a fan.

Riese: Right? Yeah. I want to be a fan. I want to be having a really good time. I don’t want to be complaining. After watching this episode, I was like, we have to record the podcast immediately because I am just teaming at the gills with frustrations. Even though I’ve already written the recap. That’s not enough. I still have more to complain about. But I think I probably complain in general more on the podcast than in the recaps. But it just, it’s frustrating because it feels like it wouldn’t be that hard to make it better.

Analyssa: That is actually, I think part of the reason that the podcast can tend toward not complaining but getting more critical, which is that all three of us have better ideas for how… Have very easy pitches for, oh, if it was two lines that were different, this would make sense to me. And when you’re writing your recap, I assume you’re thinking that, but there’s no bouncing ideas or validation of like, oh yeah, I also thought that. Again, it just can quickly become, and another thing when we’re on.

Drew: You might say that this is a writer’s room and why is this not happening in the writer’s room? Which is just, I think something’s happening in the infrastructure of what it takes to make television where things…

Riese: Somehow things are not working.

Drew: I don’t know. I don’t what is happening. I don’t know if they’re not getting enough time. I don’t know.

Riese: Yeah, there’s something going on because they have talented people in that room.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I do think that probably is worth, we’re a podcast of writers. We are writers and I’d love to write for TV and we have invested interest in this medium. All of us do. It’s not that, I think in that way it might be different than a podcast by fans or by comedians or actors or something. Because we’re all writers we, it’s basically, this is a writer’s take on the show. You know what I mean? And that is going to be probably more, maybe that’s why we’re so frustrated because we just want to edit it.

Analyssa: I read a review of Babylon on Letterbox today that was just somebody I follow that was like, give me a pound of cocaine and 72 hours in the edit bay. I could fix this thing. And sometimes I don’t even need the drugs, obviously I just watch the L word. I’m just 10 more words. I think I could change it, which maybe is just my own feeling like I could do better. But also just sometimes I’m like, but logically, puzzle wise, doesn’t that make sense?

Drew: I will say from having been on sets before, that sometimes you are trying to put out certain fires and change certain things that really bother you. And everyone’s kind of trying to do that and in the end you get this, there isn’t the prep time when the person who’s leading the ship isn’t maybe given the resources or isn’t equipped to do so. All the different voices that are involved and have good ideas end up with a thing where one person’s good idea of, well maybe Finley’s mom justifies it by saying that she’s here because she’s leaving her husband and Finley left home. And so it really makes sense. And they’re like, oh, that’s a great idea. And then on then someone else is like this idea, and everyone’s trying… then someone else had an idea that was offensive to one person. So then someone’s like actually, that’s offensive. We need to change that line. And all these different things are happening and then it results in work that just feels incompetent. I do think that that happens and that probably is what’s happening. And it’s just frustrating because with the right amount of planning and with the right amount of actually listening to people the first time they say things like, you can avoid a lot of that, I think.

Riese: And it seems like they’re shooting on a tight little schedule. They had one day of rehearsing for the musical episode.

Analyssa: Whoa.

Riese: And that they shot the whole, all that Fletcher stuff they had to shoot it in the rain because they couldn’t put it off. I think it just would’ve been great if they had engaged with the reality that Gigi… Because obviously she has a different job. And I wish they just… I don’t know why they just weren’t open about that. In the past I mean, most shows usually are, they’re just like, yeah, sorry, we killed this character off. They wanted to leave the show.

Drew: Do you think they wanted to kill her with the car accident? And then were like, we can’t do that. And then wrote another episode where she…

Riese: But that’s a really distinct way of looking at it, is that this is a lot of different people having different ideas. So somebody, especially if you’re trying to involve all these young voices, but you don’t… Like it’s trying… Any type of group work, sometimes you end up putting something in cause you’re like, well I want that person to feel like their ideas are validated and valuable and I want to include that person ’cause their voice is important for this story and then you end up with sort of something that’s a jumble of a bunch of stuff and it doesn’t really hold together as a piece.

Drew: Yeah.

Lauren : Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode of To L and Back, Generation Q edition. One of two podcasts brought to you by Autostraddle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter @tolandback. And you can also email us at tolandbackcast@gmail.com. Our theme song is by the Talented Beast Steadwell, and our Gen Q logo is by JaxCo. This episode was produced, edited, and mixed by me, Lauren Klein. You can find me on Instagram @LaurenTaylorKlein. You can follow Drew everywhere at Draw_Gregory. You can follow Analyssa on Instagram @analocaa with two a’s and on Twitter @analoca_ with one a and an underscore. You can follow the legendary Riese Bernard everywhere @autowin. Autostraddle is @Autostraddle. And of course the reason why we’re all here autostraddle.com. And finally, to end this EP, let’s hear some Q words from our girlies.

Analyssa: 3, 2, 1. Quibble.

Drew: Qualms.

Riese: Quinn.

Analyssa : What’d you say?

Riese: Well, first I was really, I was just going to say quince meat and then I looked at Anna’s face and I thought, she doesn’t deserve this. So then I said Quinn, because I was thinking she was T-boned.

Drew: I do remember that. I said qualms because I have many qualms.

Analyssa: I said quibbles.

Drew: Because you have many quibbles. That’s beautiful.

Riese: Quibbles or Qualms.

Drew: I hope you’re all doing wonderful out in the world.

Riese: We love you.

Drew: We love you and maybe…

Riese: Maybe next week will be really fun.

Drew: And also just a reminder that there’s luckily a lot more queer media out there other than The L Word: Generation Q.

Riese: Like my recaps of The L Word: Generation Q.

Drew: Yeah.

Analyssa: Number one.

Drew: I mean, it’s really nice that this show still brings us all together and it’s one of my favorite things about it. I love chatting with my pals, chatting with all of you. But just a reminder, there are several great TV shows, several great movies every year. Not as many as there should be, but there are some. Yeah.

Riese: Also, if you want a To L and Back sticker, it’s like $1 in the Autostraddle store.

Drew: That’s a great deal.

Analyssa: Wow, that’s a deal. Happy New Year.

Drew: Happy New Year! 2023.